Greetings Earthbound...

My first thought is "yes". Has a prophecy completely been fulfilled in it's first go around, or previous occurrences?

This is a very good question...

The first things that come to mind are these; The completed version of the Bible we have today came to us from the Nicene Creed. Now this of course was 300 years after the New Testament had been written. Let's take one prophecy as an example, as we recognize Jesus quoted Daniel pertaining to the Disgusting thing being placed, we know Jesus's words had a fulfillment between 66-70CE however, we don't really have the exact day counts of that fulfillment as recorded in Daniel. That book is very clear on the exact days between each event, yet throughout history down to our day with sources such as Josephus we have months, or times, or seasons, we don't know the exact days between let's say the moment Rome circled the city, and the temple was destroyed, and on top of that, we don't know exactly what events the first century disciples should have been looking for to flee. No doubt they in that time recognized the sign such as when the temple was looted in 66 leading up to the rebellion. But still, why are all of these exact days recorded in scripture, but none in history?

I would also of course bring up Jesus's words as it pertained to signs in heavens and earth, in the same prophecy. Has that ever been fulfilled? Yet it was part of that prophecy fulfilled in the first century. So one can see events (as you mentioned) that have not taken place in there first fulfillment's (as we know of).

Then we have prophecies such as the Two Witnesses. Moses/Elijah, Joshua/Zerubbabel, etc... There's clearly a group of two yet to come that has not fulfilled these signs of two. We get the association of three and a half days in the grave for them that don't appear to be filled in the past representations of these two. (Rev 11)

The numbers in scripture that repeat, 40, 7, 1260... on and on

The Maccabean revolt seems to match the 66-70CE chronology, but yet not exactly. With both we still don't have an exact day count between them, so why is it in the Bible? It seems to me because there will be a time that these exact day counts will be greatly used on a world wide scale.

Some prophecies in the Bible just seem frivolous if they don't have a second fulfillment to me. Why make Ezekiel (or whoever) lay on their side 40 days if it was only to teach him something?

These repeating numbers to me seem to be the biggest factor. I guess I can say it's any prophecy that is associated with numbers or days, that have a future fulfillment.

But then you could bring up Dan 9... We know the 70 weeks had a fulfillment in Daniels time, but within his commentary we also know there must be a future fulfillment because he says; Dan 9:24 "There are 70 weeks that have been determined for your people and your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, to finish off sin, to make atonement for error, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the Holy of Holies."

So therefore this tells me there is a much broader fulfillment when these events will occur in a literal more definite moment...

One could also argue to the fact that 2000 years have passed, and why would God have all these past events, with such detail and specific information (on which some events mentioned within, there is no evidence that said detail occurred in it's first fulfillment). So we have an end coming in the future, and the Bible just screams out at me with it's past end time fulfillment's that these past ends have a much broader and final fulfillment.

Okay, I could go on but, I guess it's a case by case study, and if there are exact days included, I stand to the side that says there is a future fulfillment where we will be able to count those exact days, unlike we are able to with any past "end time" fulfillment....

My perspective...

 

Thank you brother for the reply, and I assure you that discourse is the whole reason for this board, and in no way are our conversations anything other then two brothers discussing our Father's Word, in which we both delight. I welcome your presents here, and appreciative of your insight.

I sometimes speak in a manner that is matter of fact, rather then saying "in my opinion", please forgive any unintended conceit. So let's get into it. Shall we..?

Why did Jehovah put all of these day counts in scripture? He could have just as well left them out, and just kept in the events for us. You are correct brother, we don't know when the end will come, but I believe he has left us the structure of the end, so that when it does begin we can preach what is coming with confidence that the events in the time of the end, will occur on the days we say they will. Not unlike Noah's knowledge of the time frames before the flood, Moses time frame before the exodus, Dan and the 70 weeks, and on and on. We are assured Jehovah will not act until revealing such things to his prophets. Amos 3:7 "For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing Unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets."

I will endeavor to show you what I mean;

The good thing about the way Jehovah presented the days in Daniel is we don't have to apply a year to them, whether that be the Jewish lunar year, or the Gregorian. A day is simply one rotation of the earth. So in it's simplest form, the 1290 days of Dan 12:11 simply mean 1290 rotations of the earth.

Now the "appointed time, appointed times, and half a time" of Dan 12:7 can be explained by Rev 12. (As we both know the WTS also claims.) Therefore why understand these 1260 days anything other then literal rotations of the earth?

In this case that means that the chronology in Dan 12 starts with the 1260 days when the constant feature is removed. So, both the 1260 days of Dan 12 and the 1290 days begin on the same day with the constant feature being removed. Therefore the 1290 days end 30 days after the 1260 days end. This is the progression of days spoken of in chapter 12.

See this is the point in Roberts work that I realized so many years ago he missed something. I believe Dan 12:11 is telling us the time frame between the constant feature being removed, and the disgusting thing being placed.

"11 There will be one thousand two hundred ninety days from the time the daily sacrifice is stopped to the setting up of the desolating monstrosity."

Daniel 12:11 (CEV)

"11 There will be one thousand two hundred ninety days from the time that the daily sacrifices are stopped, until someone sets up the Horrible Thing that causes destruction."

Daniel 12:11 (ERV)

"11 The daily sacrifice will be stopped. There will be 1290 days from that time until the time that the terrible thing that destroys is set up."

Daniel 12:11 (EXB)

"11 The daily sacrifice will be stopped. Then, after 1,290 days from that time, blasphemous object that brings destruction will be set up."

Daniel 12:11 (NCV)

"11 The daily sacrifice will be stopped. Then, after 1,290 days from that time, a blasphemous object that brings destruction will be set up."

So then, what we have so far is the 1260 days and 1290 days beginning on the same day, then 30 days after the 1260 days end, the disgusting thing is placed. I believe this is why Robert cuts up Dan 11 verses 30-45. He places 40-45 in between 30 & 31 because he thinks the constant feature being removed, and the disgusting thing being placed happen on the same day. Where in fact I believe Dan 11 is chronologically sound from verses 1-45 when you understand there are 1290 days between the constant feature being removed and the disgusting thing being placed. I believe Dan 11:31 is merely giving us an overview of the events the KOTN will accomplish, in that of these two events.

Now we come to the 1335 days of Dan 12:12. It seems obvious that the 1335 days also begin the same day as the 1260 and 1290, because nothing is said to what begins them, other then simply continuing the conversation of days from the previous 1260 & 1290. Therefore what verse 12 is saying is, happy is the one who reaches the 45th day after the 1290 days end. It's saying happy is the person who reaches the 75th day after the 1260 days end.

It looks like this;

Now we can extrapolate that it is the New World that comes at the 1335th day from what the scripture says; “Happy is the one who keeps in expectation and who arrives at the 1,335 days! “But as for you, go on to the end. You will rest, but you will stand up for your lot at the end of the days.”

So, now with this, we can overlay many events that are prophesied to occur during this time table. Starting, the 42 months of the Two Witnesses beginning their witnessing work at the beginning of this time table, that incubuses the circling of the courtyard, and note that does not include the temple. (Rev 11:3)

Then that period ends, and they are no longer in sackcloth at the end of the 1260 days when the kingdom is established and Jesus is enthroned (I know that's not detailed, I can go into it if needed). At which point the end is not yet. There are 30 days before the disgusting thing is placed in the temple, and since Christs brothers represent the holy place, it is these the world turns on in order to cut their bands free from Jehovah, but he will laugh at them, bringing Armageddon. (Psm 2:3,4) The temple these ones turn on will be the remaining brothers on earth of Christ who will be transfigured (just as Stephen) when the Holy Spirit is poured out. Then the first day of the new world comes in at the 1335th day.

Okay, now I'll stop here because I can go into the 2300 days, the 70 weeks, but I wanted to present to you where my work picked up after Roberts, and why I came to this point in chronology. After all, Robert said once that chronology wasn't ever really his work, but he was glad to see others working on it. He knows what his gifts are... If desired I can continue with the rest of the end time chronology map, or feel free to specifically address anything I have present here in. I appreciate that you appreciate what we are doing here.

I'll just touch briefly on knowing when the end will come. I 100% agree with you that there is no way to know when it will come, but I believe Jehovah has left us with a map for when it does come, and I believe he left us one more clue as well, although it's impossible to know when it comes, we may be able to have a clue what years are possible. After I completed the work of the chronology, I noticed that the Jewish Holidays yet to be fulfilled overlapped the end time chronology perfectly, but only at certain times, and that was 2013, and as well 2018 as a possible start, 2021, and 2037 are the next time periods in our life time that the Jewish Holidays coincide with the Chronology (and the events on the exact day, I might add) that I have presented. When I recognized this, I wrote a thread on it, and it can be found HERE.

Again, if you wish I can go more in depth with that as well, or double back and narrow down a discussion on anything I've presented so far if you have any questions. If I haven't answered any of your questions, please feel free to ask again, and I will focus more on specifics if you wish. As well I can present past fulfillment examples of these accounts as well.

May Jehovah's truth come through, not our own understanding, but that of what is actually there...

Jehovah's spirit be with you brother...