I would like to offer these scriptures for all's consideration under this subject.

Could these even ever be debated by scripture? Pure and simple teaching from Christ is always the best, without embellishment, other than prophecies concerning them, such as Daniel 2,4,and 7.

The Son of Man, sons of the Kingdom, the 'holy ones'...the 'witnesses of Jesus...all these apply to Jesus' brothers...anointed as he was, and transferred into the Kingdom to be sharers in the first resurrection.

Of course, not the survivors of Armageddon, or the resurrected billions who will be next...but all Christians are to have their hope in 'eating his flesh, and drinking his blood.'

The brothers of Christ all believers are to press forward and seize...not pass the plate on down to a hall of disbelieving observers. What a terrible delusion that was!

Here, from christian.forumatic.com, I present a small synopsis of fundamental gospel teaching.

[h=3]Re: Being Led by Spirit and Truth[/h] Postby John S » Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:08 am
I would like to again refer to Jesus' teaching for all beginning disciples as recorded at John 3:1-5 *;

" Most assuredly , I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." *

and,

" Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God." John 3:3,5

To understand better what Jesus is talking about, we start by looking at John chapter 4; the 'Woman at the Well'. Let's listen to what he tells the Samaritan woman;

"...but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life." John 4:14

also note further in verse 24....

"God is a spirit, and those who Worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

So, we can clearly see the connection here between water...and truth....and about God, Jesus, and everlasting life.

I also like Paul's explanation found at 2 Thess. 2:13;

"But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you , brethren loved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth."

So, again, we see the 'water' Jesus describes at John 3 plainly refers to 'truth' about God, the ransom, and Christ.

The Spirit

This part really needs to be a constant, daily concern for all who wish to be approved by God. The theme of the whole NT is the new rebirth to a 'son of God' by means of His selection and anointing with the holy spirit, as was his Son at his baptism by John. Here, again, we'll let the Bible, in the words of John the Baptist, teach what this means, as recorded at John 1:33...

"I did not know him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, " Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with Holy Spirit." '

This is not similar in every way to , say, the way the spirit came upon Samson to give him super-strength, no. This is a special event....one of the most important in mankind's history. It is the adoption by God , and a transfer of a mortal man or woman's eternal destiny of everlasting life, not as a human creature on earth, but an everlasting spirit-being, to be fashioned in the same type of indestructible quality as Jesus Christ himself. These persons, at the time of the first resurrection, or at Jesus' return, will find themselves resurrected into a spirit-creature, and live forever as kings in heaven, initially forming a government and teaching administration for all mankind who live on earth forever. This is the sacred secret the scriptures refer to as the 'good news' of God, that has actually been in planning and development from the beginning...not an emergency fist-aid patch God placed on Adam's offspring at Eden's disastrous events. (see Eph. 1:4,5)

Listen to what Jesus tells us at Acts 1:5...

"For John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

At that event, Peter said to those witnessing the baptism of the spirit;

"Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sin; and you shall receive the free gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord, our God, will call." Acts 2:38,39

At such a time as God, through Christ, anoints us as his children, we can now have a special relationship with not only God...but Christ our Lord as well;

Rom. 8:15

"For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father".

and also 8:9, and 11...

" But you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his. "

" But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you."

This is emphasized by Christ in John 15; the 'Vine' illustration...where Jesus actually 'abides' , or will come live inside of us through the Holy Spirit.

"Abide in me, and I in you." John 15:4

Supporting this factual miracle is Jesus' prayer to his Father at John 17:21...

"that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in me, and I in you,; that they also may be one in us, that the world may believe that You sent me."

This truth WT , via their NWT translation, has butchered to say,' in union with us'. This destroys the entire meaning of the anointing of the Holy Spirit....something WT has been doing successfully for over 80 years now.

Notice the gravity of the WT's sin here, as pronounced by Paul;

"I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who want to trouble you and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed." Gal. 1:6-9

Summing up, Christ taught the truth about everlasting life, his blood ransom, and the adoption to heavenly sonship as the good news of the kingdom. We here today must accept the fact that this gospel was maliciously distorted to rob JW converts of the spirit...and it has been a masterful and successful delusion!

So, why not rethink everything they sold as a bill of goods?

Learn from your own Bible;(preferably NOT the NWT, either).....what is the message Jesus wants us to understand; the real "Truth" that leads us to everlasting life. And personally receive God's welcome into his heavenly family, as Jesus promised to each and everyone who will listen.

* All scripture quotations from the 'Open Bible'...The New King James Version

 

Well, there must be some confusion about the words used by the real John; in his gospel. (John 17:21) I’m wondering if that is the idea of what Jesus meant when he used the expression; “. . . For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh.†( Mt 19:5-6 DNKJB ) Or, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh.†( Mt 19:5-6 NASB )

Once again, a wolf disguised as a sheep has sneaked onto the Forum’s General Discussions; with the intent to “draw away the disciples after them.†(Acts 20:28-30 NASB ) Having known and become friends with Basque shepherds, I learned to detect predators from a distance. I suggest you go somewhere else, with your doctrine, to find your prey.

 

I'm sorry you are offended by a mere quotation of the Lord Jesus Christ's explanations. I seek no more prey than to present him as our true and valiant shepherd. I have acknowledged my sinful nature, why would anyone wish to follow me?

But if others, too, and you yourself do not wish to hear it, I will gladly comply, saving time for everyone, although I am saddened by such a judgement of my motives as you've mistakenly, and quite harshly made.

I will refrain from any wrangling, and repeat for all; what I have always said is just a witness of repetition of Jesus' and the apostles' writings, no great oratory to give glory to my miserable self.

One of my main rules of life, is to never overstay my welcome, and never keep company with people who dislike me or what I deeply believe...so...we'll let this end it.

I leave you for the sake of peace, and will say no more.

 

As I do also.

 

Hi Tsaphah,

As the meaning of your name implies you are peering and looking out and being on guard.

Be careful what you imply about the motive of others.

We will all be judged by Jehovah for the things we say about one another.

John S is fiery in his faith and wants everyone else to be also - but that does not mean that he is the enemy.

Which one of us has all of the answers? You? Josuha? Are we not all naked and openly exposed to Jehovah whom we will make and accounting too?

Not trying to be adversarial here - just wanting you all to cool your jets and be careful how you answer.

Have a blessed day.

Joe

 

I did not say that John S is unwelcome here. I look at the totality of what is said by anyone here. I don’t necessarily agree with everything said, no matter who it comes from. What I do see, not everyone sees. It all depends on the phrasing of what is said. Those who have read my comments on this forum know that I do not always agree with what the WTB&TS teaches.

I’ve heard this story before, with the same hidden reasoning. “Learn from your own Bible� Which one would that be? “their NWT translation, has butchered to say,' in union with us'. Their NWT translation? Why must you continually apologize for what you say? If you are being truthful, you should not have to apologize for any quotation from God’s word. There is more behind your mask.

As I have said, I have seen this before. Yes, I am a watcher! When I see something or someone that doesn't sound or look right, I will say something as a warning. Those who wish to can heed it, those who don't, that's their choice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZEXEItKND0

 

No matter what John_S' motives are, I agree with you in that the art of reading (and the Bible in particular) isn't a gift given to all...

 

?

Well, I offered the post of the 'Good News of the Kingdom' as a thumbnail examination of the basic teaching of the Lord.

So what did anyone find in this simple selection of scriptures so foreign-sounding and objectionable?

My motives were judged pretty harshly, don't we think? These are just common scriptures, I felt.

And why would anyone think I was trying to jump-start any 'new religion', or gather any reader to my leadership through these few scriptures?

 

If not WT....who do we go away to?

So, if you are a reader who has had enough of WT, and wondering what is there left...who is there to go to, or where...then think about this.

Jesus Christ did not start the WT...C.T. Russell did. And the next one, Rutherford...then Knorr, Franz, etc.,etc. These named all died, and we lived under their rules for awhile. But, you are still here...and so is the Chief Shepherd, and we can start now...it is not too late...to start following him exclusively. As he says at John 14:1-6 from 'Phillips New Testament in Modern English'...(John 14:1-7)

"You must not let yourselves be distressed- you must hold on to your faith in God and to your faith in me. There are many rooms in my Father's house. If there were not, should I have told you that I am going away to prepare a place for you? It is true that I am going away to prepare a place for you but it just as true that I am coming again to welcome you into my own home, so that you may be where I am. You know where I am going and you know the road I am going to take."

"Lord," Thomas remonstrated, " we do not know where you are going, and how can we know what road you are going to take?"

"I, myself, am the road," Jesus replied, "and the truth and the life. No one approaches the Father except through me. If you had known who I am you would have known my Father. From now on, you do know him and you have seen him."

If you are finally so dissatisfied with WT, then you have come to a crossroad in life.It is not too late for you to again chose a road. We suggest you follow Christ, now, and turn to your Bible all over again. This time do not listen so much to a 'Bible study aid', but just read Jesus' words, as he received them from his Father. Get to know for yourself the way Christ taught. And draw closer to God and Christ through the help of the Spirit of truth. Jesus said he would send the Helper, the spirit of truth, and "that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all things I have told you." John 14:26

Then walk on in the way, the truth, and the life Christ teaches...not men's words ever again.

Christ and his instructions are the only way 'to the Father'.

Have a great journey, and enjoy the spirit's assistance.

 

I'm not talking about motives here since I don't necessarily share Tsaphah's point of view although I trust his judgment.

You know what, I've been in forums for 7 years now and it's getting tiring to see the same nonsense being repeated years after years by people who pretend to know the Bible better than the GB but who are as at a loss in that regard as the latter ones, or even worse. Discussions are started, arguments are provided... to no avail because it's like talking to walls. Arguments may not necessarily serve to debunk erroneous statements but may also be useful to enhance the depth of the discussion for the benefit of all involved. That's a positive goal but we don't even have that. Instead of discussions moving further, we keep having dialogues of deaf people and/or keep having the same platitudes presented as ground-breaking epiphanies. Ok, we may not all have the same mental abilities, level of instruction or kind of tools useful on hand for our personal Bible study and I understand that some people may be slower on the uptake if certain arguments are really beyond their grasp or really foreign to what they're used to, but on many occasions, the arguments are easy to understand and to take into account and yet, despite the latter, it often becomes manifest that our interlocutor hasn't taken them into consideration simply because he's lazy or doesn't care at all. Therefore, it's hard to believe someone who pretends to be a lover of the truth if the only truth accepted and professed is theirs.

We've already discussed those points at length in Gabe's thread entitled heavenly hope and yet you answered none of our arguments in a convincing manner.

You remember ?

Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament
​

Here's a new one besides the other ones posted in Gabe's thread :

John 17:20-21

[As thou, Father, art in me] See John 14:10. This does not affirm that the union between Christians should be in all respects like that between the Father and the Son, but only in the points in which they are capable of being compared. It is not the union of nature which is referred to, but the union of plan, of counsel, of purpose seeking the same objects, and manifesting attachment to the same things, and a desire to promote the same ends.

[That they also may be one in us] To be in God and in Christ is to be united to God and Christ. The expression is common in the New Testament. The phrase used here denotes a union among all Christians founded on and resulting from a union to the same God and Saviour.

(from Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database
Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006. All rights reserved.)
​

You keep scathing the WT for putting "in union with" instead of "to be in" as if they had blasphemed whereas the real reason is that you merely prefer "to be in" because it fits your understanding and above all your feelings and own perception of the "phenomenon", so to speak. Personally, I'd accept your reasoning if you just said that you prefer "to be in" without you trying to accuse the WT of being the mother of all evils.

The quotations above aren't from the WT and yet, they express the same thing as them. Your approach looks more like a mystical one than a spiritual one since what matters to you is to emphasize the notion that Christ is really within us, and us within Christ. I'm not saying that your opinion is wrong in that regard. I contest the form, not the content. I'd rather believe that Christ is in us through the Holy Spirit because the latter at work within us helps us to develop the same personality as Christ. The same force that empowered him empowers us now towards the same goals.

The same kind of arguments were presented against your understanding of who is anointed or not. I won't quote them again as I don't have time for it and you know where to find them.

 

Thank you for your reply. I would like to remind all of a few scriptures that help to

understand what the sons of the kingdom and anyone who wishes and whom God graces can

experience.

"Keep getting filled with spirit..." Eph. 5:18"

"...but he, being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven..." Acts 7:55 (of Stephen)


"On the contrary, this is what was said through the prophet Joel, "And in the last

days," God says, "I shall pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh, and your sons and your

daughters will prophecy, and your young men will see visions and your old men will dream

dreams...and I will give portents in heaven above and signs on earth below, blood and fire

and smoke mist...and everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved. " excerpts

from 2 Peter 2

"You will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon you, and you will be witnesses

of me..." Acts 1:8 (the Lord)

"...John baptized with water,but you will be baptized in holy spirit not many days after

this." Acts 1:5 (The Lord)

These are just a few, but it is well documented, primarily in the lengthy book of Acts,

how the holy spirit comes into one, and activates the whole 'soul', body, mind, and spirit

of a person.

You said this, Utuna; that you believed Christ was 'in' a person via the spirit....I

believe that was the gist of your comment?

I can see that, as this must also be how the Father is inside us, too.

How can we as very simple flesh and blood beings understand the meta-spiritual parameters

of the function of this action? Christ just said the spirit would be in you, or you would

receive a baptism, etc.

Now, as to WT 'butchery' of the 'in' expression?

I learned from their own Bible they printed when I read from the original languages

Wescott and Hort's 'Kingdom Interlinear'.

The switch from 'in'...you to... 'in union with' I very easily saw and immediately looked

this up throughout the Greek scriptures; it was a total sweep of the expression under the

rug.

Motive?

AS we both know from being Witnesses all our lives , nearly, the anointing is not only

played down, but those who receive it in the org are at first intimidated, then questioned

by all, then shunned and eventually vilified. Why?

Isn't it primarily because this would go against stated WT teaching that only 144,000

receive the spirit? And since 1935 Rurherford told all the followers God was 'now selecting

a Great Crowd of person who will never die who will live on earth in Paradise'?

So, the true teaching of Christ is now downplayed, and out of the congregation's

thinking, and study material, right?

Did he have authority from Christ to do such a thing? [again, remember Paul's words at

Gal. 1:9, where he promised a curse on anyone altering the gospel(good news)]

As for understanding what the anointing is, it is explained by Paul that it cannot be

explained completely to a person who is not anointed, as they haven't had the experience

yet.

Please review 1 Cor. 2 where the anointed understand the process, whereas those merely

with the 'wisdom of this world' cannot fathom it.

"For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into

all things, even the deep things of God." (1 Cor. 2:10)

There in 2:16, is another scripture where it says the anointed do have, "the mind of

Christ."...along with that of Jehovah.

Being a Witness for 54 years, as I was baptized at 16 (although raeised and believed it

from birth), I am more than qualified to speak with the weight of evidence concerning the

teachings, and general spirit exuded by the org during that time. I was also surrounded by

Witnesses after my letter of disassociation was given to the elders some 8 years ago. Wife,

family, neighbors, and ex-friends. Nothing has changed. The anointing with the spirit and

intimacy with God Paul explains in Romans 8 is fought tooth and nail by elders, GB members,

and the rank and file Witnesses.

The truth Jesus taught from Matthew to Revelation has been buried in the minds and hearts

of Witnesses.

But as we know, the teachings of Christ are crystal clear; the sons of the kingdom would

be selected all through the time he was resurrected until the day he arrives to take them up

from the earth and in the 1st resurrection at his 'coming'. They will play the major role of

the great last days witness foretold by Christ in Matt. 24,25, and the Revelation, as Satan

returns to earth and the seige against Christianity begins in earnest. These are called,

"brothers of Christ", "those who have the work of bearing witness to Jesus", and other that

differentiate these from all who merely refuse to 'take the mark' of the beast at the last

showdown.

I ask you, personally, Utuna, as a moderator here, to allow me the space to write about

these matters, as one concerned with aiding all sincere lovers of Jehovah and Christ to draw

close to God through understanding what Jesus tells us, not meanmade doctrine.

The anointing; bapptism of the spirit is a reality, and was long ago foretold to be

occurring right up to the end, and especially right before the fulfillment of the end-time

scenario promised by the Lord in Revelation.

I agree with your understanding on how Christ can be 'in' us via holy spirit. This is how

he explains it too...that the 'comforter' would hear from him the directions he gives, then

tells us.

Because of his victory in offering up his life in sacrifice, Christ was given full power

to use the spirit, and he actually does the anointing, as Acts says; "he poured out the

spirit after receiving it from the Father" (in more or less those words". Acts 1

There are plenty of Witnesses now, and many writing on the internet who understand these

matters pretty much exactly the way I am writing. I get amens many times, and these

explanations can be read on different forums through the years.

 

Dear John_S,

Thank you for your thorough and heartfelt answer.

Please, is it possible to show us what you say you saw that easily and that is throughout the Greek Scriptures ?

I'm not taking it out on you. I'm just doing what I've done for years with others and even myself.

 

Yes, that was the gist, some kind of a summary as this subject is complex and contains many different facets.

Personally, I don't understand why such a need to write reams and to make such a fuss about this concept which I have understood, pondered over and classified for later. I don't understand such a need to hold forth on subjects like these for hours, months and years that have definitely a great importance but that manifestly won't make the discussions go any further.

OK, we've got it. You prefer "to be in" to "to be in union with". Everybody say that it means the same but you disagree. Ok, we've got it. So what ?

It's like the WT that uses now in French the "tu/thou" instead of the "vous/you" because, supposedly, when "tu/thou" is used instead of "vous/you", the readers feel more involved/concerned than with "vous/you", which is naturally more destined to a group than to one person on particular.

Are you kidding me ? Are the people so stupid ? Are they kids in so many ways that they can't understand deep things without being talked to as if they were spotty teens ?

Ok, let's say as you imply that I'm stupid and that it seems that I don't understand the difference between "to be in" and "to be in union with". I have on hand at least 15-20 different Bibles in English and in French and my goodness ! I'm shocked because the NWT says "in union with" instead of "to be in".... and this very detail would be a spiritual life-changer to me ? Now that's an epiphany !

What a bore... !

I'm sorry but at times, seriously, it's more than tiresome...

Oh my dear heavenly Father... When the beef ?

 

"If I am not doing the works of my Father,do not believe me. But if I am doing them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, in order that you may come to know and may continue knowing that the Father is in union with me and I am in union with the Father." John 10:37,38 NWT

Wescott and Hort's Kingdom Interlinear Translation says;

"If not I am doing the works of the Father of me, not be believing you to me; if but I am doing, and if ever to me not you may believe to the works believe you, in order that you should know and you may be knowing that in me the Father and I in the Father." John 10:37,38

WT; "Do you not believe that I am in union with the Father, and the Father is in union with me? The things I say to you men I do not speak of my own originality: but the Father who remains in union with me is doing his works. Believe me that I am in union with the Father and the Father is in union with me: " John 14:10,11

Wescott and Hort Greek master text:

"Not you are believing that I in the Father and the Father in me is? The sayings which I am saying to you from myself not I am speaking; but the Father in me remaining is doing the works of him. Be you believing to me that I in the Father and the Father in me; but if not, through the works, them be you believing." John 14:10,11

John 14:20 NWT...

"In that day you will know that I am in union with my Father and you are in union with me and I in union with you."

W & H Greek;

"In that day you will know that I in the Father of me and you in me and I in you. "

These scriptures, also do the same in NWT, substituting "in" with ,"in union with"....

John 15:4-7

John 17:21, 26

There is a whale of a difference between being 'in agreement' with Jesus, and Father...and having them be inside our mortal bodies through the holy spirit anointing, is there not?

Romans 8:2 NWT

"For the law of that spirit which gives life in union with Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin, and of death."

Greek text (W&H)

"For the law of spirit in the life in Christ Jesus freed you from the law of the sin and the death."

Here, now is one of the main reasons we need the true understanding of how by God's anointing spirit, we have God and Christ right inside us....so that we are actually 'holy' ourselves; notice this at Rom. 8:4...

"...that the righteous requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who walk not in accord with the flesh, but in accord with the spirit" NWT

literal Greek:

..."not according to flesh walking about, but according to spirit."


We know the 'tune' Christ , the Apostles, and even certain texts in Hebrew describe; the holy spirit is the way we acquire the power to 'walk in the spirit'...and not according to the 'flesh'.

So, we must acquire the 'baptism of the spirit' as John and Jesus told us. Paul illustrates it again at 1 Cor. 6:15-19...(even NWT has it close)

"Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I , then, take the members of the Christ away and make them members of a harlo? Never may that happen! What! Do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body? For, The two," says he, "will be one flesh."

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit....."

"What! Do you know that the body of you people is the temple of the holy spirit within you, which you have from God?"

The 'Christ'...the 'Body of the Christ'...is the anointed...the temple of God, the New Jerusalem that comes down from heaven. The city of Christ, and the anointed, '144,000' who will come down to earth and rule, and Father Jah is inside them through the holy spirit.

I certainly understand that there are millions of Christians all through the last 2000 years who certainly must have been begotten of the spirit as Jesus was...as this is the only thing Christians are required to achieve; the baptism of the spirit, and joining Christ as one of the sons of the kingdom.

This is what I hope you two, and others who read here, see as their possibility to share also. NOT the sole property of a few GB members in NY, or only ancient JW's among us who were anointed decades ago.

All are being invited by Christ to become 'one' with he and his Father, and follow Christ back to the heavenly abode of our Father at his return.

We can also become trained by receiving the spirit now inside our mortal bodies, to be trained, guided, and led by the spirit now, ourselves, not have to receive pitiful 'crumbs' from the WT tables, who do not teach these truths.

Each one can receive the spirit from Father and Christ right from reading their own Bibles, no need for the Apostles or any men now to 'lay hands upon you'.

The spirit is going to fall upon all who cry out to God in faith, and with clean hearts in the last days; now.

 

The spirit we must possess

"He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day; for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him." John 6:54-56 (NWT)

Here W&H reads;

"The one munching of me the flesh and drinking of me the blood is having life everlasting, and I shall resurrect him to the last day; the for flesh of me true is food, and the blood of me true is drink. The one munching of me the flesh and drinking of me the blood in me is remaining and I in him. According as sent forth me the living Father and I am living through the Father, and the one munching me also that one will live through me."

Now, to my great surprise,(!!!o I find a footnote in the large-print Bible later published in 1984 at this scripture which reads;

"John 6:56* "In union with me". Or, "in me." Gr. en e moi'. (NWT)

I wish they had translated it correctly for us all those years instead of drawing us away from the real meaning of the word.

Imagine now if you were able to call to Father at any time ,...day or night...and ask for the spirit to be inside you, to give you his (Father's thoughts, or his Son's too. Or to give us their pure love, or any strength or need we have at that time. Maybe to stay inside us, so we will have no fleshly desires...all day...every minute...and if one comes into our mind, we immediately pray for the spirit to come, and quickly, so God comes into our hearts, minds, very soul...and chases away the evil thought.

In some poor souls...even us Witnesses...demons plague some...yes...it occurs. The scriptures show demons could be expelled from poor souls by prayer for the holy spirit to come and drive them out. Do you understand the power that is available to those baptized with the spirit? It is a spirit of holiness, that drives out even demons, much less evil thoughts and intentions.

No, Father need not be there in our hearts and minds in persona. But "Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you. Cleanse your hands you sinners. Subject yourselves, therefore, to God; but oppose the Devil, and he will flee from you." (Jas. 4 loosely quoted) But, his spirit, and they through it, can...just like a telephone or laptop, or microphone in your head and heart. Plus the power to go with it. "Just as I hear, I speak," Jesus said, because he was anointed with his Father's spirit.

Why do they (WT) teach this way? Why rob us of the facts about the spirit being this powerful in our lives, and our ability to fight the flesh when we have the holy spirit anointing?

Christ invites us to fly away to God's throne with him upon his return, and become pivotal in the resurrection of the dead, judging of the demons, and total reconstruction of a doomed and ruined earth. The scriptures also say the kingdom will rule forever, not just for the 1000 years, either. Imagine looking at Jehovah God, face to face.....

Why should we accept the teaching 'we are not good enough to be anointed, so we are just going to be other sheep, and live as humans on earth' ? Christ taught everyone the anointing way, as did all the apostles. The rules are plainly set out; no doubt about it. WT even stated before, "The Bible, especially the New Testament, is written to and for the anointed."...have you heard that? I did, and from many elders through the years. But, if you read the scriptures, this is plain, not debatable, right?

How close would you like to get to Jesus? How about Father Jehovah? Wouldn't you love to feel they are right there in your mind, and heart, ...when in prayer? While under trial? It can and will be a reality for you; if you wish it.

 

John_S, you are awesome, and I love your faith. I've read your posts on the site Forumatic ... something ... I see where you are coming from.

But bear with me - I think you've been stumbled, not from the truth, but despite it

(quite the conundrum, many Israelites dealt with the same conception)


The raw mathematical reality of Jehovah's Witnesses zeal and our modern world are going to come to a head.

Why? To break-up the trinity, and refine a group of people to receive the outpouring of the spirit.

To make the name of YHWH, Jehovah, Yahweh, God Almighty Known. THIS was one of Jesus' primary stated goals.

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(P)Saul was a unique individual (Pharisee, lawyer, but blind). So was Peter (Zealous, and blindly passionate).

Unique. Trained in certain ways, through certain experiences.

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For a FACT, the Bible speaks of a time of stumbling.

Why will that group stumble during the time of the end? Is there a reason?

BECAUSE those stumbled have INSIGHT. (see Daniel 11:29+, Matthew 24, Luke 21, Mark 13 - COMPARE to Isaiah 28, Ezekiel 13)

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The internet is destroying mainstream Christianity and Jehovah's Witnesses.

As everyone here will acknowledge, JWs have wolves among them; that isn't a question.

Now we wait for the pattern of Israel to fulfill itself in the Christian era.

Out of the stumbling and persecution, a mathematical certainty (IMO), will emerge a refined group who will spiritually body slam this corrupt system.

Here is how I picture that body slam:

"God chose the foolish things of the world to put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world to put the strong things to shame"​

Who is more weak than Jehovah's Witnesses?

Who is more foolish?

Who has more faith in YHWH?

Who is publicly declaring the name of Jehovah / Yahweh / Ehoba / Yavee / YHWH?

(all of this other "high theology" doesn't mean much ... it's the Catholic trap -- kill the spirit by over-definition, quicksand)

 

Thank you single cell, for seeing my heart.

Yes, I agree with all you said. The 'truth' we received about Hell, Father Jehovah, soul, Kingdom of anointed, and the Great Crowd...was and is, precious , clean water of life. The baptism of the 'water' of truth, knowledge necessary to lead us to repentance, and get baptized as we all did (let me not forget the ransom atonement, sorry)....is only half the formula. Now, I see , like myself, some of us started receiving the spirit also.

Talk about a wake-up....it floored me. First thing I said in reply to Christ, "Not me, Lord, I am too sinful!"

He reprimanded me...and immediately, "It's not about that!"

So, no one here must ever feel they are 'unworthy' of receiving the baptism of the spirit. All here at this 'Kingdom Hall' where we are meeting are in the initial phase, I feel, of receiving the spirit. And some posters here already have, even before coming here.

Readers and writers here have the nobility of mind,...the eagerness and thirst for truth , to the point of reaching up and out to learn, now, and then write, write, write, beautiful essays about many interesting sand important subjects we all have to learn.

Each one has unique ares and avenues...gifts...if you will...they are contributing to the 'growth of the body'. This so called, 'independent research, or study', instead of a horrifying apostate crime, is a tremendous asset to the other 'eagles' who are gathering here at this 'carcass' for spiritual meals.

And all that in addition to the comfort readers are receiving when they come and sup with the many who need fellowship, and real comfort, balsam for healing, and hunger for more, and more truth.

This is a good place to hunker down, and heal. We all have been and are still going through a very hard time, and Christ is feeding us all by these internet oases.

As a Witness, and I still am in spirit, although the org , I feel, like you say, single cell, has been hijacked, I was so happy! Because of the spiritual brotherhood,...it was...the 'truth'...yes, but it wasn't supposed to stagnate and rot, but to grow purer, and I thought Jehovah would clean it out...but I couldn't take it anymore, I had to grow...the org was an old wine skin, and the spirit burst it right out and I had to fly after two years.

What will happen inside?

Many of you are still inside, and will be able to help others get free, possibly. I really don't see the GB/CO/Elder chain of command being cleaned by God's word. as Jesus said in John 15, 'The Vine'.

Why not?

Simply because they are not following the Christ Shepherd, but men's voices who have another agenda, it is all-too apparent. Maybe the money went to their heads...I cannot judge the hearts, but the local elders, and some CO's I met really are just obeying orders...and I still love many of them as you all do, as also my heart bleeds for all my friends, relatives, and you, too. I have stayed out here in the trenches for you...not joining churches, where Jehovah's spirit is being grieved over Trinity and other untruths/lies. The agenda in many of those 'houses of God' is not the baptism of spirit and truth for their membership, as a rule...not that I see by and large.

But, we shall see more as the world rolls on.

Remember, the spirit-filled are scattered in fields all over the earth, and the sheep will be collected by the angels at the end. I feel this site and others such a collecting, congregating place where we can be fed, rest, and grow.

Matt.18:20

"Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst."

Above all, let's put the Lord Jesus Christ and his name and teaching back into our lives. Then the spirit will come down upon us, and by that he will lead us to the Father, and through this evil we are seeing grow....as recently in Paris...and Syria, and the Middle East as elsewhere. Horrible.

It can only get worse, and it will. Hang on brothers and sisters....look for more of us to collect in these small pools..watering holes of holy spirit.

Father, bless this site, and may your son rule here as King, and teacher, through your spirit. In his name we pray.