TIME. What is it?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Tsaphah, Mar 25, 2016.

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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    “When God delays, He always delays for a greater purpose. You might not be able to see that purpose right now because YOU live within the confines of linear time.” ( Tony Evans - “Between A Rock And A Hard Place”) But God’s time is different from our time here on earth. That brings up the question; what is time? It all depends on perspective. When I served in the military we used Zulu Time. That was based on Greenwich Mean Time (GMT), measured on the prime meridian running through Greenwich, England: used in England and as a standard of calculation elsewhere. By using this, no matter where you were on earth, it was the same time. There is just one time zone. GMT is no longer used and was changed to Universal Time (UT) for scientific use.

    All of the explanations above still do not say what time is. As Albert Einstein said, “Time is relative”. It depends on who you are, where you are, and when you are, at some point in the universe.

    “Time, as a separate entity, has not yet been defined in language. Definitions will be found to be merely explanations of the sense in which we use the word in matters of practical life. No human being can tell how long a minute is; only that it is longer than a second and shorter than an hour. In some sense we can think of a longer or shorter period of time, but this is merely comparative. The difference between 50 and 75 steps a minute in marching is clear to us, but note that we introduce motion and space before we can get a conception of time as a succession of events, but time, in itself, remains elusive.” (James Arthur. “Time and Its Measurement”, pg 13, - 1909.)

    In the English language:
    Time (as a noun, adj., verb, idioms, etc.)
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/time

    In the Bible, there are 54 different word forms, in Hebrew and Aramaic, to express time. One word is a part of Jehovah’s name: hayah = to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen. In Greek, there are 45 different word forms to express thoughts of time.

    When applied as Einstein stated we can understand more clearly what Peter quoted; “But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the LORD ( Jehovah Psa 90:1-4 ) as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” “For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.” (Psa 90:4 DNKJB ) Time is relative.

    “And the evening and the morning were the first day” Gen. 1:5; “Evening and morning and at noonday,” Ps. 55:17, divides the day (“sun up”) in two parts. “Fourth part of a day,” Neh. 9:3, shows another advance. Then comes, “are there not twelve hours in a day,” John 11:9. The “eleventh hour,” Matt. 20:1 to 12, shows clearly that sunset was 12 o'clock. A most remarkable feature of this 12-hour day, in the New Testament, is that the writers generally speak of the third, sixth and ninth hours, Acts 2:15; 3:1; 10:9. This is extremely interesting, as it shows that the writers still thought in quarter days (Neh. 9:3) and had not yet acquired the 12-hour conception given to them by the Romans. They thought in quarter days even when using the 12-hour numerals! Note further that references are to “hours;” so it is evident that in New Testament times they did not need smaller subdivisions. “About the third hour,” shows the mental attitude. That they had no conception of our minutes, seconds and fifth seconds becomes quite plain when we notice that they jumped down from the hour to nowhere, in such expressions as “in an instant— in the twinkling of an eye.” (James Arthur. “Time and Its Measurement”, pgs 13-14, - 1909.)

    In the last words, “twinkling of an eye”, is a quote from Paul’s letter to the Corinthians. “Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,” ( 1 Co 15:51-52a NASB ) This word, along with twinkling are important word associated with early Greek understanding of time. The word translated as moment is atomos (at'-om-os) meaning, that cannot be cut in two, or divided, indivisible. The other word, twinkling, is rhipe (hree-pay'), meaning; a throw, stroke, beat, a moment of time.

    In the USA, there is “Daylight Savings”, where the clocks are reset ahead 1 hour in the spring, and reset back one hour in the autumn. Why? It doesn’t really save time, because it’s a 12 hour clock. Many other places in the world run on 24 hour clocks to keep time. How accurate are they? Not very. Then, there is the “Atomic Clock” which the microwave signal that electrons in atoms emit when they change energy levels. How accurate is the atomic clock? “FOCS 1, a continuous cold caesium fountain atomic clock in Switzerland, started operating in 2004 at an uncertainty of one second in 30 million years.” “Atomic clocks are the most accurate time and frequency standards known,” Another way to express this is: “We don’t know!” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_clock

    Thanks for taking the time to read this.
     
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    Tsaphah

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    Here is some additional information concerning Hebrew and Greek word’s translated into English dealing with the idea of time. They are Hebrew :`owlam (o-lawm') = long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient, eternal, everlasting, indefinite or unending future, eternity. The WTB&TS used the term, time indefinite when translating ‘owlam, back in the earlier versions. The NASB uses the word eternal when translating ‘owlam.

    One example is: “He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end.” ( Ecc 3:11 NASB ) The NWT used to have “Even time indefinite he has put in their heart,” in the Revised 1984 addition. It now reads, “He has even put eternity in their heart;” (2013 REVISION NWT)

    I was going to use some other examples but the JW site is having some transmission problems with it’s word index. So, I used my old “Comprehensive Concordance” to locate some scriptures and, oops, they must have used another translator because they changed “time indefinite” to “forever”. At least in Ps 136, Ex 3:15, etc. “This is my name to time indefinite,” vs “This is my name forever,”, “Rejoicing to time indefinite” vs “Everlasting rejoicing” (Isa 61:7)

    I can’t understand the changing of these words or terms because as stated in Ecc 3:11, mankind has no idea what “forever”, “everlasting”, “time indefinite”, “without end”, “everlasting to everlasting”, really mean. It is too much for their puny brains to comprehend. The majority does not even know what comprehend means.

    Maybe in time, they will get the picture. o_O
     
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    SingleCell

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    Thanks for posting this Tsaphah!

    Interesting how the above definitions use time as a metric for measuring change from a beginning point to end point.

    So how is time measured in the infinite? It's still the passage of moments ... and there is still beginning and end of "moments"

    (.. I would think)

    Because time as measured by atomic decay (etc) is not applicable outside of the universe, is there really no passage of "moments in time"?

    So much we don't know.
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Well, a while ago, about 2 hours in time, I read the article written by Robert (1975 – 40 Years After). We, he, the WTB&TS, can make all kinds of statements based on what we read in the Bible. Whether in the Hebrew or Greek the words are mostly general when referring to time. Robert says; “It has been surmised. .”. Another word could replace “surmised”. That word is assumed. What do those words really mean? As a verb, surmise means: to think or infer without certain or strong evidence; conjecture; guess. And as a noun: an idea or thought of something as being possible or likely. The other word, assume, as a verb means; to take for granted or without proof: to take upon oneself;

    There an old saying about assume, “It makes an ass - out of - u - and me!” In these situations, what should we do? First of all, we can rely on so-called “experts”, or “scholars”, or “learned” people. That means we take the “surmised” and “assumed” reasoning of someone else. We could say, “Well, why not listen to them? They have spent many years studying these languages and understand these written words. They have concluded that they are right.”

    The apostle Peter said, “But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the LORD ( Jehovah Psa 90:1-4 ) as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” ( 2 Pet 3:8 DNKJVB ) Peter was quoting from Psa 90:4 which says: “For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.” The Hebrew word used in verse 4 is shaneh (in pl. only), shaw-neh’, and can mean:
    1. year
    a. as division of time
    b. as measure of time
    c. as indication of age
    d. a lifetime (of years of life)

    This word, shaneh (shaw-neh) is from the root word shanah (shaw-naw’) meaning to repeat, do again, change, alter. It also depends on the sense of the subject being spoken about. In this context, David is speaking of a lifetime and when a person dies. From the time of death to the reawakening, resurrection, is like a nights sleep. David is also talking about a judgment and justice carried out by Jehovah.

    Adam Clarke’s commentary says: “As if he had said, Though the resurrection of the body may be a thousand (or any indefinite number of) years distant; yet, when these are past, they are but as yesterday, or a single watch of the night. They pass through the mind in a moment, and appear no longer in their duration than the time required by the mind to reflect them by thought. But, short as they appear to the eye of the mind, they are nothing when compared with the eternity of God! The author probably has in view also that economy of Divine justice and providence by which the life of man has been shortened from one thousand years to threescore years and ten, or fourscore.

    This statement of long ago is what Einstein stated about “space time” being relative. Time is relative as to who you are, where you are, and when you are, in the universe.

    Paul repeated this thought about time and relativity with Jehovah God. As I have said before, the 40 year periods used in the Bible are apparently times that Jehovah uses in making decisions for a change or the start of accomplishing His purpose. We are given information on some of these time periods such as “a time, times, and a half.” This is given along with a specific length of days of 1260. We also know that the Hebrew year was 360 days, based on the lunar cycle. These numbers occur in both the Hebrew and the Greek scriptures. They are also associated with a period when Jehovah God will accomplish a change in His purpose.
    But, let’s not try to jump ahead of Jehovah, or try to figure out when all this will take place. (Mt 24:36-37) If you are anointed, or even an angel, YOU DON’T KNOW!

    Remember this, there were those who thought the end was in 70, when the temple and Jerusalem were destroyed. Again, when the Roman empire fell. Again, and again, and again, through generation after generation. What about 1914? What about the period of 1930 to 1945? What about 1975, based on the 1,000 year creative “day”? Yes, keep awake! But don’t jump the starting gun with false information, or conjecture, surmise, or assumption.

    Learn to wait on Jehovah and his Son, Jesus Christ. Instead of trying to calculate the time of the end, calculate how long it will take for you to be found acceptable to Jehovah and His Christ. Our time may come within the next breath!

    Time - Pink Floyd (long music introduction)
     
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    SingleCell

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    Haha, Paul did demonstrate the theory of relativity, in a sense :)

    Good point Tsaphah, I'm going to use that and memorize the verse.
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    This subject came up today as I discussed some other statements by some theoretical physicists. It has to do with light, the speed of light, and what light is. So, in reality, we assume that light travels at a specific speed at a specific distance. In reality, both numbers are assumed. Light (all forms) travels at 186,000 miles per second. Those two numbers are assumed by man. If we changed both numbers, the equation would still be true in our minds.

    According to Albert Einstein, time is relative. “When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That’s relativity.” (Albert Einstein)

    “For years, my early work with Roger Penrose seemed to be a disaster for science. It showed that the universe must have begun with a singularity, if Einstein’s general theory of relativity is correct. That appeared to indicate that science could not predict how the universe would begin.” (Stephen Hawking)

    “Time, as a separate entity, has not yet been defined in language. Definitions will be found to be merely explanations of the sense in which we use the word in matters of practical life. No human being can tell how long a minute is; only that it is longer than a second and shorter than an hour. In some sense we can think of a longer or shorter period of time, but this is merely comparative. The difference between 50 and 75 steps a minute in marching is clear to us, but note that we introduce motion and space before we can get a conception of time as a succession of events, but time, in itself, remains elusive.

    In time measures we strive for a uniform motion of something and this implies equal spaces in equal times; so we here assume just what we cannot explain, for space is as difficult to define as time. Time cannot be “squared” or used as a multiplier or divisor. Only numbers can be so used; so when we speak of “the square of the time” we mean some number which we have arbitrarily assumed to represent it. This becomes plain when we state that in calculations relating to pendulums, for example, we may use seconds and inches— minutes and feet— or seconds and meters and the answer will come out right in the units which we have assumed.
    Still more, numbers themselves have no meaning till they are applied to something, and here we are applying them to time, space and motion; so we are trying to explain three abstractions by a fourth! But, happily, the results of these assumptions and calculations are borne out in practical human life, and we are not compelled to settle the deep question as to whether fundamental knowledge is possible to the human mind. Those desiring a few headaches on these questions can easily get them from Kant and Spencer— but that is all they will get on these four necessary assumptions.”

    Evidently, man began by considering the day as a unit and did not include the night in his time keeping for a long period. “And the evening and the morning were the first day” Gen. 1, 5; “Evening and morning and at noonday,” Ps. 55:17, divides the day (”sun up”) in two parts. “Fourth part of a day,” Neh. 9:3, shows another advance. Then comes, “are there not twelve hours in a day,” John 11:9. The “eleventh hour,” Matt. 20:1 to 12, shows clearly that sunset was 12 o’clock. A most remarkable feature of this 12-hour day, in the New Testament, is that the writers generally speak of the third, sixth and ninth hours, Acts 2:15; 3:1; 10:9. This is extremely interesting, as it shows that the writers still thought in quarter days (Neh. 9:3) and had not yet acquired the 12-hour conception given to them by the Romans. They thought in quarter days even when using the 12-hour numerals! Note further that references are to “hours;” so it is evident that in New Testament times they did not need smaller subdivisions. “About the third hour,” shows the mental attitude. That they had no conception of our minutes, seconds and fifth seconds becomes quite plain when we notice that they jumped down from the hour to nowhere, in such expressions as “in an instant— in the twinkling of an eye.”
    (James Arthur-Time and Its Measurement, Chap. 1, pgs 13-14, 1909)

    “Time is an illusion which we order events in our lives. It can be measured as the elapsed interval between events.” - William Rothamel

    Time does not exist until we place a number value to it, relative to who we are, where we are, and when we are. As Albert Einstein said, “Time is Relative”. The word relative = something having, or standing in, some relation or connection to something else. Something dependent upon external conditions for its specific nature, size, etc.

    In Physics: a theory, formulated essentially by Albert Einstein, that all motion must be defined relative to a frame of reference and that space and time are relative, rather than absolute concepts: it consists of two principal parts. The theory dealing with uniform motion (special theory of relativity or special relativity) is based on the two postulates that physical laws have the same mathematical form when expressed in any inertial system, and the velocity of light is independent of the motion of its source and will have the same value when measured by observers moving with constant velocity with respect to each other. Derivable from these postulates are the conclusions that there can be no motion at a speed greater than that of light in a vacuum, mass increases as velocity increases, mass and energy are equivalent, and time is dependent on the relative motion of an observer measuring the time. The theory dealing with gravity (general theory of relativity or general relativity) is based on the postulate that the local effects of a gravitational field and of acceleration of an inertial system are identical.

    Remember: It is still, only a theory! = a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact. :)
     
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    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    And Jehovah God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” (Gen 2:15-17 DNKJB)

    This event begs the question: If God knows “the end from the beginning,” (Isa 46:10) does that nullify “free will”? Why did he tell Adam not to eat the fruit, when He knew that Adam would? This is considered to be a paradox: A statement that seems to contradict itself but may nonetheless be true. Maybe we should look at this a bit more, in detail. Take your “time”, it’s a microsecond in space-time.




     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    At about 26:35 in the video, Mr. Missler speaks of a person dying in the past, and another dying today. Both are seen by God at the same time. It reminded me of what Jesus said about Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. “I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven;” ( Mt 8:11 NASB ) Again, Jesus repeats the thought. “‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.” ( Mt 22:32 NASB )

    When Mr. Missler speaks of 1 John 3:1-2, the KJV translates this as “we should be called the sons of God”. This is an incorrect translation. Why? The word in Greek; teknon (tek'-non) is not exclusive but inclusive. It is related to words such as teknogoneo (tek-nog-on-ee'-o) = from a compound of teknon - (tek’non) and the base of ginomai - ginomai; to be a child-bearer, i.e. parent (mother):--bear children. So, it is properly translated in the NASB and the NWT as: “we would be called children of God;” Therefor, it does not exclude women or female children. The word usually translated as son, when speaking exclusively of a male child, is huios (hwee-os’) a son, and generally used of the male offspring of men.

     
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    SingleCell

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    MIssler is an honest man.

    I saw a talk he gave a few years ago, he started crying in the middle of it and admitted he followed a false idol with his hyper-patriotism.

    At which point I knew he was the real deal; a genuine Christian, and extremely smart.
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Yes, he was involved in some pretty devious things in the business world. At one time he was the CEO of Western Digital, the maker of hard drives for computers. Plus, a few other companies that were investigated for fraud. But that's in the past.

    As a mathematician looking at the bible for consistency, you would want to find information to prove there was a designer behind the account of the creation. Chuck Missler points out a specific fact that proves the point. There are two similar statements made to give a mathematical proof. Mr. Missler points out that there are two Dimensionless Constants of the Universe: (1:37 in the video, to 1:44. Pay careful attention. It’s hard to believe, but it is mathematically true.
    — Pi, π ( 3.14159 )
    — Natural Logarithms, Loge (2.718281828. . .)
    These are constants that don't change. Man did not create them, they found them.

     
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    You know, I was thinking about this last night. Some believe that the 66 books of the Bible were written by at least 40 authors over a period of 1,500 years. Now think about all of the people on this planet now, how many agree exactly between themselves on what that book says? Can you really ever get two to agree on anything? Perhaps Witnesses are one of the few that as a group believe consistently the same ideas across the platform, but of course we know they have many misunderstandings as to prophecy.

    So how is it that 40 different writers over some 1500 years agree not only on every single point, but so perfectly interwove every understanding, concept and sentence structure with every other instance on said subject in every place in scripture? And also keep in mind that the finished collection of books was not implemented until 300 years after the last books were even written.

    My understanding and experience in how complexly woven and beautiful scripture is has revealed to me a single writer of it all...
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Here is another interesting video about the design of the universe and why we are here. There are a few scriptures which speak of discovering the works of Jehovah. “Can you discover the depths of God? Can you discover the limits of the Almighty?” ( Job 11:7 NASB )

    What has been is remote and exceedingly mysterious. Who can discover it?” ( Ecc 7:24 NASB )

    Then I considered all the work of the true God, and I realized that mankind cannot comprehend what happens under the sun. No matter how hard men try, they cannot comprehend it. Even if they claim that they are wise enough to know, they cannot really comprehend it.” (Ecc 8:17 NWT)
    These particular scientists say that we are placed here, at this particular spot in the universe to discover the works of a wonderful designer. It runs an hour and 47 minutes.

    The Privileged Planet (How Our Place in the Cosmos Is Designed for Discovery)


     
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    Post of the year # umpteenth :)

    [​IMG]

    "The "spiritual" beauty is in the "spiritual" eye of the beholder" if any.....

    Do you think Isaiah would have agreed on everything with Jeremiah ?

    It is in accordance with the passage I quoted lately from a book about that which inspiration really means.... Inspired writers wrote texts that were beyond their immediate spiritual understanding... (unless they knew a bit more than what we think, which is implied at times in the Bible...)
     
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    Cristo

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    The more important question is did God know that sin would happen? For the first sin by Satan preludes the sin by Adam. So this event begs the question did God know that Satan would sin?



    On a side note Tsaphah....guess your bait worked lol:eek:
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    No, there was no bait on the hook. It was a philosophical question. I am curious about: How many here watched the video by Chuck Missler “Beyond Space and Time - The Boundaries of Our Reality” (post #8). There is a spot where he explains how God is outside of time. (25:00 in the video)
    That means that Jehovah God can see the past, present, and future, all at the same time; instantly! :confused: Actually, my mind can't comprehend that depth of thought.
     
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    Yes, I have learned to not even try and understand Jehovah's existence. As Robert recently said, it makes my brain hurt.
     
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    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    The following comments are from Niels Bohr, on quantum conditions and our understanding of light. I found it interesting because you can apply this same explanation to our understanding of what we know of God’s plans. “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have carefully hidden these things from wise and intellectual ones, . . .” (Lu 10:21 NWT)

    The problem, Bohr said, was that quantum conditions ruled on the atomic scale but our instruments for measuring those conditions—our senses, ultimately—worked in classical ways. That inadequacy imposed necessary limitations on what we could know. An experiment that demonstrates that light travels in photons is valid within the limits of its terms. An experiment that demonstrates that light travels in waves is equally valid within its limits. The same is true of particles and waves of matter. The reason both could be accepted as valid is that “particles” and “waves” are words, are abstractions. What we know is not particles and waves but the equipment of our experiments and how that equipment changes in experimental use. The equipment is large, the interiors of atoms small, and between the two must be interposed a necessary and limiting translation. (The Making Of The Atomic Bomb - Richard Rhodes, 1986, Pg 131)

    I was reminded of this by another preacher who mentioned that there is so much about God’s plans which we don’t know, or will know, until they are accomplished. These are Jehovah’s secrets; the hidden things. We have a Greek word that we used in the military, crypto, which all of our secret messages, plans, missions, were hidden. That word is from the Greek root word krupto (kroop’-to), as a metaphor = to conceal (that it may not become know). It stays secret/unknown until the sender reveals the code to the receiver. The same holds true with these scientists. God will give, or allow one of them to understand the necessary mathematical code/formulae for light at the appointed time. It will be another revealing factor which will show that there is a GOD; a designer of the physical universe.

     
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    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    “The mystery of time encloses things in its folds, and our grasp of its infinite bearings is measured by our limitations. As there are no isolated facts in the Universe, we can never get to the end of our subject; so we know only what we have capacity to absorb.” (“Time and It’s Measurement” by James Arthur, Chp 4 - Astronomical Foundation Of Time, pg. 53 - 1909)

    As far as words used in the Greek Scriptures to represent time, there are three words, hora, pechus, and hemiorion, that are translated individually in different ways. The first, hora, almost sounds like hour. It is pronounced ho’-rah.
    The many ways it is translated are:
    1. a certain definite time or season fixed by natural law and returning with the revolving year
    a. of the seasons of the year, spring, summer, autumn, winter
    2. the daytime (bounded by the rising and setting of the sun), a day
    3. a twelfth part of the day-time, an hour, (the twelve hours of the day are reckoned from the rising to the setting of the sun)
    4. any definite time, point of time, moment

    The most times this word is translated, 84-89, it is hour. “And Jesus said to the centurion, ‘Go; it shall be done for you as you have believed.’ And the servant was healed that very moment.” [Lit hour] (Mt 8:13 NASB)

    But Jesus turning and seeing her said, Daughter, take courage; your faith has made you well. At once the woman was made well.” [Lit from that hour]

    Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble, because he sees the light of this world.” (Joh 11:9 NASB)

    For some comparison we will use Philemon 1:15; “For perhaps he was for this reason separated from you for a while, that you would have him back forever,” (NASB) “For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever;” (KJV) In both scriptures the word is hora, yet the translations represent different lengths of time.

    In the second case, the word pechus (pay'-khoos) is also translated many ways:
    1. a cubit
    2. a measure of length equal to distance from the joint of the elbow to the tip of the middle finger (i.e. about 18 inches, (.5 m) but its precise length varied and is disputed)

    Never the less, the NASB translates Mt 6:27: “And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life?” The literal translation is: “And who of you by being worried can add a single cubit to his height?” “Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?” (KJV) And, the Codex Sinaiticus reads: “But which of you, by being anxious, can add one cubit to his age?”

    This word, pechus, is “nearly” properly translated at John 21:8 “But the other disciples came in the little boat, for they were not far from the land, but about one hundred yards away, dragging the net full of fish.” Of course a cubit being 18 inches (a foot and a half), the measurement would be fifty yards.

    The other place in scripture is at Rev 21:17, “And he measured its wall, seventy-two yards, according to human measurements, which are also angelic measurements.” Here again, it is half yards, or 36 yards, not 72. The word translated as “life”, “stature”, and “age”, is helikia (hay-lik-ee'-ah) meaning time of life, term or length of life, and in height and comeliness of stature, degree of development attained; level of achievement.

    Finally, there is hemiorion (hay-mee-o'-ree-on), a compound of hemisu (hay'-mee-soo) + hora (ho’-rah) = half of (everything we spoke of above) Half yard, measure, life, stature, cubit, etc. This word only occurs in one place in the Bible, Revelation 8:1 “When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.”

     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Ths is rather lengthy and takes TIME to read. It also contains some heavy thoughts.

    I came across a few quotes that started me thinking about our conversations about time, space, speed of light, etc. (Conversation with a friend who is a physicist)

    “Science is built with facts as a house is with stones, but a collection of facts is no more a science than a heap of stones is a house.” - Jules Henri Poincare

    “People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive.” - Blaise Pascal

    “Religion was quickly pushed out. Science . . . and football . . . were much more attractive.” - Marcus du Sautoy

    Here are some of the statements from that article about the “Big Bang Theory”. The quotes are from the heading “The first second, and the birth of light” , (Paragraph 2 & 3)

    “Over time, however, the free electrons met up with nuclei and created neutral atoms. This allowed light to shine through about 380,000 years after the Big Bang.

    This early light — sometimes called the “afterglow” of the Big Bang — is more properly known as the cosmic microwave background (CMB). It was first predicted by Ralph Alpher and other scientists in 1948, but was found only by accident almost 20 years later.”
    http://www.space.com/25126-big-bang-theory.html
    _____________________________________

    “An extension of the Big Bang model, inflation, poses that the universe initially expanded far faster than the speed of light and grew from a subatomic size to a golf-ball size almost instantaneously,”
    (Paragraph 1)

    “It took quite a bit more than seven days to create the universe as we know it today.” (Paragraph 2)

    http://www.space.com/13219-photos-big-bang-early-universe-history.html
    _____________________________________

    The Bible account can be used to support the “Big Bang Theory”. The Bible starts with a synopsis: “In the beginning God created the heavens and earth.” (Gen 1:1 - The Big Bang). This is followed by: “The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep,” (Gen 1:2) The mass was accelerating faster than the speed of light. “Then God said, ‘Let there be light’; and there was light.” (Gen 1:3) The mass slowed to the speed of light as it expanded. I believe this also fits your explanation and equation, as I understand it.

    I have a bit of a problem with the statements about the afterglow, based on Einstein’s theory and “Gravitational waves” as mentioned in the “afterglow”, in the second web page. The reason I mention this is because of a statement written back in 1909, in that book about “Time and Its Measurement” that I showed you. The author, James Arthur, states:

    “Time, as a separate entity, has not yet been defined in language. Definitions will be found to be merely explanations of the sense in which we use the word in matters of practical life. No human being can tell how long a minute is; only that it is longer than a second and shorter than an hour. In some sense we can think of a longer or shorter period of time, but this is merely comparative. The difference between 50 and 75 steps a minute in marching is clear to us, but note that we introduce motion and space before we can get a conception of time as a succession of events, but time, in itself, remains elusive.”

    “In time measures we strive for a uniform motion of something and this implies equal spaces in equal times; so we here assume just what we cannot explain, for space is as difficult to define as time. Time cannot be ‘squared’ or used as a multiplier or divisor. Only numbers can be so used; so when we speak of ‘the square of the time’ we mean some number which we have arbitrarily assumed to represent it. This becomes plain when we state that in calculations relating to pendulums, for example, we may use seconds and inches—minutes and feet—or seconds and meters and the answer will come out right in the units which we have assumed. Still more, numbers themselves have no meaning till they are applied to something, and here we are applying them to time, space and motion; so we are trying to explain three abstractions by a fourth! But, happily,the results of these assumptions and calculations are borne out in practical human life, and we are not compelled to settle the deep question as to whether fundamental knowledge is possible to the human mind. Those desiring a few headaches on these questions can easily get them from Kant and Spencer—but that is all they will get on these four necessary assumptions.” (Time And Its Measurement by James Arthur, Chapter 1, pg. 13, 1909)

    According to Arthur, the speed of light is an arbitrary number, or at least an assumed number. He also states that “Time” cannot be “squared”. So, it appears to be impossible to measure “space time” without adding the necessary equation with represented numbers.

    The sarcastic statement about “seven days to create the universe” is another example of misinterpretation (mistranslation) of the Hebrew word “yowm”. That particular word can be used with several English temporal word thoughts. That holds with the thought that: “Time, as a separate entity, has not yet been defined in language.” In Hebrew, it is used as; a portion of a day, a 24 hour day, 12 hours of daylight, a working day (as 8 hours), a year, a lifetime, today, tomorrow, yesterday, etc. The Hebrew word “yowm” basically means a “period of time”. It could represent millions or billions of years in our human calculations.

    The rotation of the earth, and it’s orbit around the sun, is used by astronomers to determine time on earth. They have also established ephemeris time adopted as a standard in 1952. That has also been adjusted. We now have the cesium atomic clocks running on the basis of ephemeris seconds. As stated by Arthur, they still deal with added numbers. These will also be changed by newer inventions and knowledge.

    There is a new book, reviewed in todays’ (4/22/17) Wall Street Journal, titled “The Great Unknown: Seven Journeys to the Frontiers of Science” by Marcus du Sautoy. I’m buying the hard cover addition. Here are some paragraphs quoted from the book that piqued my interest. I have some of the same questions.

    “EVERY WEEK, headlines announce new breakthroughs in our understanding of the universe, new technologies that will transform our environment, new medical advances that will extend our lives. Science is giving us unprecedented insights into some of the big questions that have challenged humanity ever since we’ve been able to formulate them. Where did we come from? What is the ultimate destiny of the universe? What are the building blocks of the physical world? How does a collection of cells become conscious?”

    “In 1900 Lord Kelvin, regarded by many as one of the greatest scientists of his age, believed that moment had come. He declared to the meeting of the British Association of Science: ‘There is nothing new to be discovered in physics now. All that remains is more and more precise measurement.’ American physicist Albert Abraham Michelson concurred. He too thought that the future of science would simply consist of adding a few decimal places to the results already obtained. ‘The more important fundamental laws and facts of physical science have all been discovered . . . our future discoveries must be looked for in the sixth place of decimals.’’

    “Five years later, Einstein announced his extraordinary new conception of time and space, followed shortly by the revelations of quantum physics. Kelvin and Michelson couldn’t have been more wrong. What I want to try to explore is whether there are problems that we can prove will forever remain beyond our knowledge. Perhaps there are none. As a scientist, that is my hope. One of the dangers when faced with currently unanswerable problems is to give in too early to their unknowability. But if there are unanswerables, What status do they have? Can you choose from the possible answers and it won’t really matter which one you opt for?”

    “Despite all the breakthroughs made over the last centuries, there are still lots of deep mysteries waiting out there for us to solve. Things we don’t know. The knowledge of What we don’t know seems to expand faster than our catalog of breakthroughs. The known unknowns outstrip the known knowns. And it is those unknowns that drive science. A scientist is more interested in the things he or she can’t understand than in telling all the stories we already know the answers to. Science is a living, breathing subject because of all those questions we can’t answer.
    For example, the stuff that makes up the physical universe we interact with seems to account for only 4.9 percent of the total matter content of our universe. So what is the other 95.1 percent of so-called dark matter and dark energy made up of? If our universe’s expansion is accelerating, where is all the energy coming from that fuels that acceleration?
    Is our universe infinite? Are there infinitely many other infinite universes parallel to our own? If there are, do they have different laws of physics? Were there other universes before our universe emerged from the Big Bang? Did time exist before the Big Bang? Does time exist at all, or does it emerge as a consequence of more fundamental concepts?
    How can we unify Einstein’s theory of general relativity, the physics of the very large, with quantum physics, the physics of the very small? This is the search for something called quantum gravity, an absolute necessity if we are ever going to understand the Big Bang.”

    Talk of known unknowns is not reserved to the world of science. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld strayed into the philosophy of knowledge with the famous declaration:

    There are known knowns; there are things that we know that we
    know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say, we
    know there are some things we do not know. But there are also
    unknown unknowns, the ones we don’t know we don’t know.”

    Then, du Sautoy states: “They have revealed the amazing fact that three quarters of the way into the lifetime of our universe, its expansion started to accelerate”

    Where does that “fact” ?, information come from??

    I hope this makes sense to you. After all, you understand physics better than I do.

    As Stephen Hawking declared in A Brief History of Time, “I believe there are grounds for cautious optimism that we may be near the end of the search for the ultimate laws of nature.” He concludes dramatically with the provocative statement that then “we would know the mind of God.” That statement about the “mind of God” is also stated in the following scriptures in the Bible. ( Rom 11:34, 1 Co 2:16, Isa 40:13, Da 4:35, Ro 15:5, Php 2:5-6 )

    While reading “The Great Unknown: Seven Journeys To The Frontiers Of Science” by Marcus Du Sautoy, I started delving into the writings and experiments by Galileo, Maxwell, Newton, Einstein, and Hawking, about the speed of light, space time, and the Inertial Frame of reference. It brought to mind a scripture written over 3,100 years ago which said: “For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it passes by, Or as a watch in the night.” (Ps 90:4 NASB ) At another place the apostle Peter wrote: “But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.” (2 Pe 3:8 NASB ) In other words time is relative. It all depends on your “Inertial Frame of reference”.

    It is interesting that Du Sautoy speaks of the unknown, and asks if there will come a time when we will be able to find the answers to know those unknowns. In the scripture written by Peter, the Greek word used for “escape” is lanthano; having the meaning “to be hidden”. It is the root for (Greek lanthánein to escape notice; referring to its position on the periodic table).


     

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