Is there Biblical basis for preventing Christian women from taking on leadership roles?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by marshroanoke, Jun 20, 2017.

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    marshroanoke

    marshroanoke Member

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    Hello my e-JW congregation! I had a quick question for you all that might be worth discussing. Is there legitimate Biblical support for women not having leadership roles in the JW organization? I ask because I am aware that there were female Judges in Israel, and there have also been female prophets. Moreover, women are part of the anointed class that will rule in heaven alongside Jesus Christ.

    Thanks for your time guys. Agape love.
     
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    Regent Lessard

    Regent Lessard New Member

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    The christian congregation is the body of Christ Col:1:18 Eph:1:22. In other words the body of Christ is all those that Jehovah choose that He anointed with his Holy Spirit from the first Pentecost after Jesus death til the last remaining ones are gathered to him to be part of his body his wife. They have all died in Christ faithful. All those that were part of the true Church of God were faithful to God's Word in 1Co:14:34. The womens in those congregations were faithful to Jehovah and did not take the lead in the church of God. Agape Love to All Regent
     
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    Baruq

    Baruq Member

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    marshroanoke

    marshroanoke Member

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    I'm not sure I find his arguments the strongest. Paul seems overtly anti women in the congregation...even calling it a disgrace. I'm trying to reconcile that with the rest of the Bible. Is there any argument that this passage is apocryphal?
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    No..!

    2Tim 3:16,17 "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work."

    PS: I personally believe the Watchtower has a grasp on the subject. This is my opinion on the matter.
     
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    BreakTheWalls

    BreakTheWalls Guest

    I have to agree with Joshuastone7.

    1 Corinthians 11:3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God.

    Who came first, Adam or Eve?

    Lol, sorry to all ladies reading this, but women love getting dominated, it is encoded into their personality.

    Jehovah, Jesus and the Angels view themselves as masculine. Jehovah's appointed leaders and prophets of the past, were all men.

    1 Timothy 2:11 Let a woman learn in silence with full submissiveness. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but she is to remain silent. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and became a transgressor.

    This is one way that you know Jehovah's Witnesses have the truth, they are the only ones observing this.

    Geoffrey Jackson was asked by the Royal Commission if he ever was going to allow women to become elders, etc. I thought he was going to provide a great witness and read these verses from the Bible, instead he was politically correct and danced around the question.
     
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    BreakTheWalls

    BreakTheWalls Guest

    Edit: I wasn't aware of a female profit.
     
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    Regent Lessard

    Regent Lessard New Member

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    I like your post B T W but their is one statement that is not accurate you say that the JW are the only ones observing this. I personally went to Groups of the Church of God to see if they were living by what they preach and you cannot see a women take the lead at their sabbath services and if the JW have the truth or any other groups my answer is Joh:14:6 Jesus said-I am the way the truth and the life. many people are for the truth and one can see the fruitage of God's Holy Spirt in their lives. Christ Love, Regent
     
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    marshroanoke

    marshroanoke Member

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    There are several female prophets mentioned in the Bible. One of those prophets, Deborah, was also a Judge in Israel.

    In my research on women in this topic, it seems that the Holy spirit poured out on first century Christians were causing women to speak out inappropriately over the elders and husbands during congregation meetings. There was an issue at the time where the holy spirit was so strong it was causing men and women to have outbursts at the same time causing some chaos. It sounds like Paul is telling the women in the congregation to not interrupt the teachings of the men. Food for thought.

    Edit: Women did pray and prophesy in the congregation, but had to wear a head covering.
     
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    Thinking

    Thinking Guest



    Lol, sorry to all ladies reading this, but women love getting dominated, it is encoded into their personality.


    HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH....now my brother I know you didn't mean that the way it comes across...lol.....more like CURSE we have to put up with because of Eve ..and her sin.......you made me laugh tho ..but the rest I totally abide by ...:p;):D....
     
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    marshroanoke

    marshroanoke Member

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    Paul's comments bring up a thought...is he suggesting that women have it "worse off" because Eve was deceived by the snake unlike Adam?
     
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    Thinking

    Thinking Guest

    That is what I personally beleive..because she was cursed with a CRAVING for her husband....or longing ( depending on translation ) for her husband and he will dominate you...( Gen 3:15 )
    I have often wondered as a woman what it would be like if we had not had that curse or discipline laid on us ??...I've never really come to a conclusion over my pondering..
     
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    Thinking

    Thinking Guest

    No I beleive totally that it is scriptural ...I think the woman or women perhaps he was dealing with were not being respectful to their men or fellow brothers and their behaviour at that time must have been disgraceful ...and disgraceful to the order of creation that Jehovah made...
    The woman was created FOR THE SAKE OF THE MAN...as a HELPER..and a COMPLIMENT...that would stand to reason ..that the same principles apply to congregational matters and meetings,...

    as BTW..said ...Jehovah and Jesus are always referred to in the masculine form ....and their first human was masculine ....we/ woman was created Second and without those masculine qualities..and we need to acknowledge that order of creation ...
    I'm thinking some of those women who had Holy Spirit poured out over them..we being a bit ..mmmmh..( I'm looking for the proper wording ).... disrespectful of this point...whilst still living as humans on the earth and still under the current order of creation...and they need to do this until they get to heaven and become all equal..but as human women....they were taking on far too much freedom not yet given to them ...so there for being presumptuous ...anyway that how I've always seen that issue at that chapter...

    Hey ...but we are a unique species...man needed us to make him happy....:p:p:rolleyes::)[/QUOTE]
     
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    John S

    John S Member

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    No, no, no. Do not bash women!

    That is the message of the Bible. Honor, respect, love as your own body. Brothers too, should love the sisters and view them as equals in the congregation.

    If NO BROTHER TAKES THE LEAD?

    Take it, you qualified to be teacher-Christian sister. Just wear a head covering. I have seen this done.

    Ex. 1. A wonderful Christian sister of mature years in Marathon FLA Keys.

    She and her husband started a 7th -Day Adventist church there years and years ago. They also built a huge planetarium in Key West, and glorified God with that. Her husband passed away, and she just kept on doing the pastor's work.

    Unlike all churches I have ministered/attended, she attended the Sunday school sessions, and listened, offering choice bits occasionally. NOT hogging the air-time (as many MEN do at these sometimes BORING classes)

    I needed some counsel then as I was going through a long divorce ordeal with my first JW wife and she was tender, sympathetic, and arranged the 3 brother deacons to pray over me, and comfort me. I'll never forget that day. I had peace after that, and I attended her church several times, enjoying her sermons. She was nearly 80, NO EGO to throw around;pride either.

    Ex. 2.

    Same island in the Keys

    A little blonde-haired blue eyed cute and pudgie sister about 40 I think. Started a mission church, with her own money. Her husband had a landscape business. She gave talks every Sunday. They offered food and meals several times a week, and beds for homeless. The man did play guitar and sing hymns, but did not teach. (I've heard he was not aligned with Christian ways by members who worked for him).Maybe he did not have the spirit? But that is hearsay, I don't know. I know she was the fire in that little church of giving.


    I have seen very fine talks on T.V. from women ministers. And benefited greatly from their scriptural counsel.

    In all, these women did NOT downgrade or criticise the men, but just told truthfully, the Lord had called them to teach, preach, and help the poor and needy.

    "Do not be putting out the fire of the spirit." 1 Thess. 5:19

    Here on this site, as well as every site I have read: women offer deep and correct conclusions from God's word.

    But be careful sisters. ...please, because the spirit of the world today is fomenting men-hating and lesbianism.

    You, too, must be respectful of the men, as we are all equal in the sight of Christ.

    Amen?

    Read Acts 2:17...and follow that good intuition God put into you. But remember to confide in your husband and/or spiritual brothers who are good examples and knowledgeable. This is where poor Eve went awry. She really should have gone to Adam, or at least the angel in the garden before she took the plunge.

    You don't have to carry your burdens alone! I don't, and here on this site I have thrown my hat into this ring, and brothers AND sisters have been there for me.

    THANK YOU! And may Father and Lord bless your needs.

    I also attended an Assembly of God church with a woman pastor: husband died , in Apalachicola, FL. She wore a little hanky-size cloth atop her head while preaching her fine sermons.

    Brothers and sisters; are you going out to churches yet to see what is REAL?

    It's something you need to do to get the real picture of how God is blessing churches too with holy spirit, not just KH's.

    OK, that's my 2-bits, take it or leave it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
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    Regent Lessard

    Regent Lessard New Member

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    [/QUOTE]
    I like your spiritual Heart and mind Regent I give you an A-+
     
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    Regent Lessard

    Regent Lessard New Member

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    I will try my best to help you come to a conclusion to your "Pondering" If Adam and Eve Had't sin an proven themselves perfect in Love obedience etc. to Jehovah they would have been perfect in Spiritual unity among themselves and most important of all with Jehovah. Adam would have been a perfect Leader for his tender half (Wife). Women Love to be "Led" not Dominated Example-a couple that love to dance the woman love to be Led. Now that is the way that Spiritual men do in the Congregation of God.1Co:9:5 Christian Love to you Regent.
     
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    Thinking

    Thinking Guest

    Thank you..I do beleive your conclusion is right...a happy one actually...and that was a brilliant illustration ...and I do beleive BTW meant we had the desire to be LED encoded in us ....it is indeed the way we were constructed..but you have put that little missing piece of the puzzle together for me very nicely ....also I like the way you put....tender half...( so much more accurate than wife ) ....I heard a great talk some years ago...how Eve was thoughtfully created....not only Did Jehovah take a rib from Adam but he also took some of his qualities...away from him and give them to his..tender half...and thus she became a true compliment to him...and thus he was once again complete...with her by his side....
    Yet Jehovah had actually created him complete.....thank you once again...your explanation is rather comforting...and thanks for the A+.:D...I never ever did get one of them at school...but I did score an A once in my school life...lol...:)
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Hey BreakTheWalls,
    It’s a good thing you didn’t say that in my house! You would have found yourself lying in the street, having been thrown by my daughters and wife. :eek: ;)

    Also, many women profit from men. Maybe that's the profit. :) They use their guile. In the account with the serpent, the women, later named Eve, didn’t eat the fruit immediately after being told she would be like God. “Consequently, the woman saw that the tree was good for food and that it was something desirable to the eyes, yes, the tree was pleasing to look at. So she began taking of its fruit and eating it.” (Gen 3:6 NWT)

    If we study this sentence, we can understand what happened. The word translated as “Consequently” is ra’ah (raw-aw’) meaning to see, perceive, as a result, effect: of what the serpent said. We also find that Eve came to find it “desirable”. In Hebrew, chamad (khaw-mad’) means to greatly delight, find desirable. This takes time to think about it. Nowhere in the account is the “fruit” (periy = per-ee’) identified. Actually, it was the tree that first attracted her attention and became desirable to the eyes.

    Another thing to consider is the tactics of Satan, the original serpent. (Rev 12:9, 20:2) He didn’t approach Adam, who spoke directly to Jehovah. Adam is the one who told Eve about the restriction of the tree. Jehovah did not ask Eve: “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree from which I commanded you not to eat?” (Gen 3:11) “Jehovah God kept calling to the man. . .” (Gen 3:9)

    Eve was the younger and did not directly communicate with Jehovah. So, she was more vulnerable to the deceptive tactics of Satan. Also, women are more sensitive/emotional then men. How many times do you think Adam saw that tree in the garden? He didn’t think twice about its attractiveness. Eve did! Why? Satan knew the makeup of the female. ( ‘ishshah ish-shaw’) The Hebrew compound from ‘iysh (eesh) + copy (opposite of man).

    How effective was Satan? He accomplished his goal to stall Jehovah’s plan for planet earth. We don’t know how long Adam lived before Jehovah made Eve as a mate, we also don’t know if Adam was aware that the fruit was from the tree of knowledge of good and bad. Could it be that Eve coerced Adam to eat it? “Well Adam, you can sleep alone tonight! How about that? It’s that or eat what I’ve prepared for dinner!”

    It doesn’t mean that Jehovah has not chosen certain women to be anointed with Jehovah’s spirit. And, if anointed, they have a specific work. (Mark 13:34)

    WOMAN. The derivation of the word in the Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and English languages shows that the idea invariably entertained was that woman is man in a modified form, one of the same race,— a female man. Where such views prevail, one would think slavery of the female impossible. Where Christianity does not prevail, women are degraded, and often enslaved. The mind is doomed to bondage, to a perpetual childhood, and the proper affections of the heart are never developed. Christianity has been the means of elevating the female character, and of bringing out woman’s nobility and tenderness. Some of Christ’s firmest and most attached disciples were women. They stood at his cross when men had forsaken him. Their affection led them first to his sepulcher. They have ever been foremost in leading man back to God. Perhaps one subordinate reason why the exclusive parentage of the Saviour’s humanity was entrusted to woman was to compensate for her priority in transgression . “The Seed of the woman shall bruise the serpent’s head.” (A Biblical and Theological Dictionary by the Rev. John Farrar, pg 637, 1852)

     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    Hi there BreakTheWalls

    This is too funny! I almost choked on my beer while reading it. :D

    One of my uncles was the only male in his family for 26 years - even all of the family pets were female.
     
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    wallflower

    wallflower Moderator

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    Hi Thinking

    I've heard that talk as well.
     
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