How To Handle A JW Who Says The Evil Slave Class Does Not Exist

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by BreakTheWalls, Jun 14, 2017.

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    BreakTheWalls

    BreakTheWalls Guest

    Jehovah’s Witnesses all believe Jesus said there “could be” an Evil Slave Class, not that there would be. But what does the Bible say?

    Matthew 24:48 “But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, and he will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his place with the hypocrites. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be.

    Do you see it says “but if ever that”? Jesus isn’t questioning the existence of the Evil Slave, he is saying if the evil slave ever develops a certain behavior, something will happen.

    Example: “But if ever Donald Trump says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards…

    Do you see, Jesus is not questioning the existence of Donald Trump, but saying if ever Donald Trump behaves a certain way, then the master will do something. It is well known Donald Trump is a person.

    The Evil Slave can do many evil things without getting a reaction from the master, only when he does that certain action described by Jesus, does Jesus react a certain way. Which is why Jesus says, "But if ever that evil slave says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying,’ and he starts to beat his fellow slaves and to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know,..."

    Now I don’t want to get into conspiracies or anything, because some have told me when Jesus says they get drunk with the confirmed drunkards, it means in a spiritual sense, but if this were to be taken literally, I fear it is already happening, based off what I heard from multiple sources in an exjw site, from people that were former bethelites and a former helper of the Governing Body. Take that with a grain of salt.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    I wouldn't believe everything you read. Even if an individual was prophesied in scripture, there is no way to prove it, and it is simply a theory, and there are many, many out there. IDK how many people I have read explained as the Man of Lawlessness, or the "Antichrist".

    In my opinion, chasing a rabbit into a rabbit hole only gets you dirty...
     
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    BreakTheWalls

    BreakTheWalls Guest

    I get that part, but when over thirty different accounts report the same story over the span of years, it starts turning into reality.
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    There is one thing about this illustration/parable that is important in understanding it. Context!
    The master has left the scene on a journey which indicates he will be absent for an extended time.
    Remember, “As He [Jesus] was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, ‘Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?’” ( Mt 24:3 NASB )

    Jesus was speaking to “His disciples/apostles”. Who were they, and to how many was He directing His speech answer? Four/4 apostles according to Mark, Peter, James, John, and Andrew, (Mark 13:3) Jesus gives information about future time/times. He says, “It is like a man away on a journey, who upon leaving his house and putting his slaves in charge, assigning to each one his task,. . .(Mark 13:34) He also instructs the door keeper to stay alert. “What I say to you I say to all, ‘Be on the alert!’” (Mark 13:37)

    Then, what can happen? “IF”, says a lot for a small word. In other words/ideas, in case that; granting or supposing that; on condition that: even though: whether: possibly: maybe, etc.

    It speaks of future events by persons who make a choice to become: evil, Greek (kakos kak-os’)
    1. of a bad nature
    a. not such as it ought to be
    2. of a mode of thinking, feeling, acting
    a. base, wrong, wicked
    3. troublesome, injurious, pernicious, destructive, baneful

    They (slaves) become one of the three mentioned above. This does not happen suddenly, it occurs over time. Were they always evil? Probably not. The master knows his slaves and would not assign responsibilities to a person with those bad qualities. Before mentioning the slaves, Jesus stated that there would be events where people would lie and misrepresent Him. They would even claim to to be Him! (Mt 24:23-24) A person can be misled/deceived.

    I loved your example of The Donald.:D
     
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    BreakTheWalls

    BreakTheWalls Guest

    Matt. 25:24-30; Luke 19:22, 23.

    It doesn't say they transform from good to evil. These verses don't insinuate whether any of the slaves are faithful or evil before the master leaves, What happens is, when the master returns, each slave proves what he really is, faithful or evil, all three were faithful or evil before the master embarked on his journey, only when he returns do they show their true colors.

    Take for example a brother raised in the truth who has been an atheist since he could think, everyone assumes he is a believing brother until one day after turning 18 he is disfellowshipped for apostasy, atheism. Did this brother transform from believer to non believer or has he always been a non believer? He had his first opportunity to show his true colors, and he did. The Evil slave is the same, if he isn't how do you explain the following verses?

    2 Corinthians 11:5 For I consider that I have not proved inferior to your superfine apostles in a single thing.

    2 Corinthians 12:11 I have become unreasonable. You compelled me to, for I ought to have been recommended by you. For I did not prove to be inferior to your superfine apostles in a single thing, even if I am nothing.

    2 Thessalonians 2:7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way.

    Evil slave, wicked and sluggish slave, the man of lawlessness, superfine apostles. It is the same thing; evil people who preside over God's people or temple. And you can see they have existed since the beginning.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2017
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    belongingtojah

    belongingtojah Member

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    Weeds growing with the wheat. How we treat each other shows what we are.

    Joe
     
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    marshroanoke

    marshroanoke Member

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    This whole discussion really brings up the fire in me. Jehovah God may be using the Governing Body as a slave to achieve his goals. However, it is presumptuous and dishonest on their part to self-identify as the Faithful and Discreet slave. It's like a runner declaring he's won the race even though he's in the first lap. Anything could happen from now to Armageddon. The slave will only be declared faithful at a future time when the "master" returns. Yet, the GB asserts it is the Faithful Slave and refers to itself as such. Brothers from the platform refer to the GB as the Faithful Slave in sermons and prayers. For a JW to suggest otherwise would be "apostasy" and would probably be grounds for disfellowshipping. I believe the GB proclaims itself to be the F&DS to pacify and control JWs, and that is wrong, wrong, wrong.

    Some have said that Jehovah is not using the GB as a slave, and that is the lie JWs are being made to believe. I disagree. I believe the lie is that the GB was and will always be the "faithful" slave for Jesus Christ. JWs have been lulled into a false sense of security by the GB. JWs assume that as long as they continue to remain loyally obedient to the GB they will sail right into the paradise. They don't feel they have the right to question the GB or be critical of the organization's policies. I do believe that in the near future those taking the lead will abuse their authority over JWs to an extreme degree. I feel this is starting now with the control measures on young JWs, the gay hysteria, and the policing of medical decisions through the HLC. This organization is becoming increasingly authoritative in these areas and it will lead to a bubble burst just like it did in 1975.
     
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    BreakTheWalls

    BreakTheWalls Guest

    They already are, you should read the experiences some people have had with mother(watchtower).

    Look up the Menlo Park congregation, huge story on that.
     
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    BreakTheWalls

    BreakTheWalls Guest

    What do you mean? The man of Lawlessness?

    The MOl is inside the Watchtower, who exactly he is, is a mystery.

    They are not a faithful and discreet slave, but they have all the check boxes marked for the evil slave class. Why else would they create the overlapping generations? The master is delaying. This fact can't be ignored.

    I don't want to call them an evil slave, but what else can I say? If it looks like a duck, quaks like a duck, it must be a duck.
     
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    marshroanoke

    marshroanoke Member

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    To call them an evil slave or faithful slave is a lie. There is clear evidence that the GB is the prophesied slave b/c there is plenty of evidence that the GB was/is being used by Jehovah God. However, the notion that they are the faithful slave is a lie, b/c that is not a title they receive until Jesus "the master" returns. At this stage, the slave group could go either way. They are promoting the lie that they will always be faithful, and many JWs readily accept that. JWs don't question the GB, b/c they have been lulled into the belief that they can do no wrong.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    It's my opinion we can keep in mind the weeds grow together with the wheat.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    The idea seems to be that both types are within Gods people at one time. Both those who are faithful and those who are evil. Wheat and weeds...

    As to the faithful slave, these are the two witnesses...
     
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    BreakTheWalls

    BreakTheWalls Guest

    I had a similar underlying feeling, anyone can be a "slave". And if you read it in that context, yes I could see many people begin the eating and drinking with the drunkards because Armageddon hasn't arrived.
     
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    marshroanoke

    marshroanoke Member

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    It's certainly possible, but at this stage I don't think anyone at this point can assume the identities of the faithful/evil slave.
     
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    BreakTheWalls

    BreakTheWalls Guest

    What is your opinion on 1914? Is it true or false?
     
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    marshroanoke

    marshroanoke Member

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    What does that have to do with what I said? I think the generational overlap is fake news. But I don't think we have the right to accuse the GB of being the evil slave. Only Jesus Christ can do that. Are they dishonest and presumptuous? Yes.
     
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    belongingtojah

    belongingtojah Member

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    Hi BreakTheWalls,

    What did Jesus say in Matthew 24 about his return?
    The simple truth is that everybody will see him - some will rejoice and some will want to hide.
    He does not return in secret but it will be suddenly as thief.
    There is a agenda that wants to keep everyone in their birdcage of teachings.
    Jehovah sets free those who live in his secret place.
    Mercy exults triumphantly over judgement - where is the mercy for those who want to speak the truth that issues from the anointing spirit which is by the way the only teacher we need.

    Have a blessed day.

    Joe
     
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    Thinking

    Thinking Guest

     
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    Thinking

    Thinking Guest

    I beleive this is correct...very good balanced reasoning
     
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    BreakTheWalls

    BreakTheWalls Guest

    I'm just curious. So you agree it's a false Prophecy.
     

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