Coffers

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Joshuastone7, Sep 2, 2019.

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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    I don't understand something.

    If the new headquarters cost 11.5 million to construct, where is the billion from the sale of properties in New York?

    Local kingdom Halls may only maintain 5k in their savings at any given time, and all other funds must go to the organization. Conventions make hundreds of thousands of dollars. All sales of kingdom Halls also goes to the Watchtower. They own everything.

    There's no soup kitchens, relief work. Even when they do help Witnesses in dedevastated places, they spend thousands, not millions.

    I know of families that give everything they have to the Watchtower, then are instructed to live meagerly. I read stories of hedge funds, and investments. Does the GB really think all their riches are dedicated to Jehovah?

    What is the money being used for?
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Barry

    Barry New Member

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    When we have a circuit assembly I'm always surprised by the cost of the assembly.
    If the assembly hall is owned, how can the cost be that high? I think last assembly it was around 15000 C$
    It always feels rather awkward when the amount of the cost is mentioned and the contributions at that are well behind the cost.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    From what I understand, places like Dodgers Stadium cost around $90k, and the society takes in around $500k at such a convention.

    I don't understand where the money is going. When I found out the new HQ cost around $11.5 million, and the sale of buildings in New York amount to over a billion dollars, there simply is no way the Watchtower needs to continue to milk the people!

    Prophecy is being fulfilled...

    "Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter. You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you." (Jms 5:1-6)
     
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    thinking

    thinking Member

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    Try not to be too disheartened over this...tho it’s extremely hard not to be...
    After all Judas must have been pilfering from the money box for some time before things all came to light..and his final betrayal.
    Jesus will clean things up in his and his fathers due time...after all he still used his people and that system of things even when they tolerated prostitues at the temple...
    Our biggest testing will probably always be from amongst us...it certainly was for Moses and Aaron...
    Hang in there....relief is ahead..
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    Doing some more readying this evening into the Watchtower's finances. In such places as Britian and New Zealand, they are required to make financial statements public. There is literally hundreds of millions of dollars in liquid assets at year end in each of these locations.

    Looking at US financial statements from the late 90's shows the Watchtower was worth a billion dollars in cash alone even before the turn of the new century.

    Today, the Watchtower holds billions of dollars in liquid cash.
     
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    Joshuastone7

    Joshuastone7 Administrator Staff Member

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    I also wasn't aware until this evening of the fact that each congregation must pay for all literature ordered each month, regardless if the money comes from donations from non-members or not.
     
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    thinking

    thinking Member

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    I’m not sure that that amount is correct but even if it is...there is nothing to be done about it really.
    Unfortunately there is no transparency as there was in Paul’s day....so we cannot even fairly listen to both sides before making any solid thoughts...good or bad...because it’s impossible to view.

    The thing is..even the good Kings who Jehovah found acceptable to him....were at times very unfair and very rough with gods own people.
    King David and Saul taxed them heavily....many of gods people suffered in very poor miserable conditions whilst these Kings lived in luxury.
    Yet Jehovah allowed it even tho not agreeing to it...and yes I know the people demanded a king..
    Unfortunately nothing has changed....and that is a lesson in itself...
    There is no Human...King..Prophet ..Judge...or Governing Body that can ever or have ever ruled Gods people in the proper manner.....it’s simply impossible...and why we look forward to Jesus taking control.
    Jehovah did not want the Kings....he warned them against the very idea....BUT...he still worked with the Kings to accomplish Jehovah’s great plan....he made do...he put up with them...he tolerated them...
    As hard as it is...we too have to try to show his attitude to all of these situations
    As a people..we can be quiet self righteous ..very cruel..ruthless.....but also very kind and loving..caring...
    None of these things are new to his household...it’s all been done before.....down thru the ages...thus the need to show endurance and patience ........
    1 Samuel 8 The Message (MSG)
    Rejecting God as the King
    8 1-3 When Samuel got to be an old man, he set his sons up as judges in Israel. His firstborn son was named Joel, the name of his second, Abijah. They were assigned duty in Beersheba. But his sons didn’t take after him; they were out for what they could get for themselves, taking bribes, corrupting justice.

    4-5 Fed up, all the elders of Israel got together and confronted Samuel at Ramah. They presented their case: “Look, you’re an old man, and your sons aren’t following in your footsteps. Here’s what we want you to do: Appoint a king to rule us, just like everybody else.”

    6 When Samuel heard their demand—“Give us a king to rule us!”—he was crushed. How awful! Samuel prayed to God.

    7-9 God answered Samuel, “Go ahead and do what they’re asking. They are not rejecting you. They’ve rejected me as their King. From the day I brought them out of Egypt until this very day they’ve been behaving like this, leaving me for other gods. And now they’re doing it to you. So let them have their own way. But warn them of what they’re in for. Tell them the way kings operate, just what they’re likely to get from a king.”

    10-18 So Samuel told them, delivered God’s warning to the people who were asking him to give them a king. He said, “This is the way the kind of king you’re talking about operates. He’ll take your sons and make soldiers of them—chariotry, cavalry, infantry, regimented in battalions and squadrons. He’ll put some to forced labor on his farms, plowing and harvesting, and others to making either weapons of war or chariots in which he can ride in luxury. He’ll put your daughters to work as beauticians and waitresses and cooks. He’ll conscript your best fields, vineyards, and orchards and hand them over to his special friends. He’ll tax your harvests and vintage to support his extensive bureaucracy. Your prize workers and best animals he’ll take for his own use. He’ll lay a tax on your flocks and you’ll end up no better than slaves. The day will come when you will cry in desperation because of this king you so much want for yourselves. But don’t expect God to answer.”

    19-20 But the people wouldn’t listen to Samuel. “No!” they said. “We will have a king to rule us! Then we’ll be just like all the other nations. Our king will rule us and lead us and fight our battles.”

    21-22 Samuel took in what they said and rehearsed it with God. God told Samuel, “Do what they say. Make them a king.”

    Then Samuel dismissed the men of Israel: “Go home, each of you to your own city.”

    The Message (MSG)
     
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    Tsaphah

    Tsaphah Experienced Member

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    Thinking, I love the answer to why evil continues. It reminds me of what Jehovah said just before he brought the flood. I also like the MSG translation. “God saw that human evil was out of control. People thought evil, imagined evil—evil, evil, evil from morning to night. God was sorry that he had made the human race in the first place; it broke his heart. God said, ‘I’ll get rid of my ruined creation, make a clean sweep: people, animals, snakes and bugs, birds—the works. I’m sorry I made them.’ But Noah was different. God liked what he saw in Noah.” ( Gen 6:5-8 MSG )

    We can thank Noah for being a true believer in Jehovah God. Your scriptural answer let’s us know that it continues today, just as it did thousands of years ago. Also, John recorded that Judas, although a chosen disciple, was a thief. “But one of His disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, who would betray Him, said, ‘Why was this fragrant oil not sold for three hundred denarii and given to the poor?’ This he said, not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a thief, and had the money box; and he used to take what was put in it.” ( John 12:4-6 NKJV )

    Judas Iscariot, one of his disciples, even then getting ready to betray him, said, ‘Why wasn’t this oil sold and the money given to the poor? It would have easily brought three hundred silver pieces.’ He said this not because he cared two cents about the poor but because he was a thief. He was in charge of their common funds, but also embezzled them.” ( John 12:4-6 MSG )

    I just happened to be cleaning out some papers in my office last week. This reminded me of some letters I sent to “headquarters” back in 1981. There they were! YUP! The local “elders accused me of making false charges against the brothers, whom they thought to be trustworthy. Well, a few years later, they were found guilty!! And, I washed my hands of it all.
     
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    thinking

    thinking Member

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    I was haunted by that scripture in Genesis where he said he had regretted he made man.....I would have been twenty when I got the truth.....I never owned a bible..didn’t belong to any faith...but when I did start a study and had a bible and read that scripture ....I was shocked to my bones to think the Almighty God had felt that way...it scared me...I was shamed before this God and I didn’t even know him....at that stage I didn’t even love him..because he was so foreign to me...and I could see his people had not changed much since the times of Noah...I must have read that scripture a hundred times....over and over and I can honestly say it terrified me.
    I’m so sorry you never ever got an apology....I know I won’t get one ....even tho that’s Jehovah’s way...we both know it will never happen...
    I remember your letter...and your pain.... but more importantly...so does Jehovah..the hardest test I have now....is to keep my bitterness and anger under control and not let it rule me.....looking in the mirror helps...lol...I’ve got a lot to work on myself..
    I guess on the plus side..he is working on our qualities...refining us...building our character.....we actually don’t have to go thru that fire....but we have chosen to submit to it... being refined is hell ...
     
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