We know from John 5 that Jesus only does what he sees his Father doing.

Therefore, in response Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing.+ For whatever things that One does, these things the Son does also in like manner. John 5:19

Also, Jesus said in John 14:9 that "if you have seen me you have seen the Father" we learn that Jesus is the great imitator.

Jesus said to him: “Even after I have been with you men for such a long time, Philip, have you not come to know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also.

My question is this. Since Jehovah has a firstborn angelic Son and also has a firstborn earthly Son, does Jesus have both as well? If not, why not? If so, who are they?

Frank

 

It’s a metaphor, figure of speech.

Metaphor: a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in “A mighty fortress is our God.”, something used, or regarded as being used, to represent something else; emblem; symbol.

My wife says, “You’re just like your father!” I have a daughter, not a son, who acts like me, does things like me, is a mechanic like me, plays guitar like me, etc.

If you have seen my daughter, you have seen me.

 

Really? That's how you view Jesus statement in John 5:19? Just a figure of speech. Well, does he have a firstborn son in heaven and from earth based on those scriptures?

 

You guys make me laugh. Jesus was just coining a lasting "saying" with scripture. You should be ashamed of yourself.

 

I think that the statement that Jesus expression that if you have seen me you have seen the Father or I only do what I see my Father doing are just "sayings" makes a mockery of scripture. That may not have been the intention, but that is what it sounds like to me. Jesus did not view his expressions in scripture trivially. Every thing that he said had deep meaning, many times two or three different meanings depending on how it was presented and written.

It's OK. Very soon Jehovah will open your eyes and remove the scales that are presently blocking your spiritual vision. Look forward to that day soon.

 

Hi Frank, I do not think that Jesus has a first born son in heaven & on earth, this isn't the same as "doing" as His Father does, this is something that God has created or brought forth, Jesus I think is refering to actions, imitiating God's virtues, His standards, being righteous in all things that He does. Jesus being God's son isn't so much something being done, a workings, actions.

 

Hi Daz:

No offense intended but I think that's a very shallow view of God's Word in general and these scriptures specifically, but if you are content with that understanding, by all means you are entitled to feel that way. You are missing so much beauty and magnificence

in the Word of God.

Hi Josh: I don't think it is a metaphor, that was Tsaphah's doing. In Proverbs 8 the bible talks about wisdom personified. I don't think it takes too much capacity to see that this is Jesus personified as the quality of wisdom. In that 8th chapter it says that Jesus or wisdom was the one that Jehovah God became the most fond of (the Watchtower has since changed how they word this to better fit their theology, like most translators do. Jesus became the one that Jehovah was most fond of because Jesus was the first angel to "get it". Getting it was understanding that their Father was absolutely perfect in every way and if they wanted to be absolutely perfect in every way that they should follow his example to a TEE. Jesus was the first to recognize this and it paved the way for a special place in his Father's heart. Jesus was starting to be one with his Father. Jesus imitates his Father's actions because he recognized that his Father does not do anything without a purpose and that all his actions have a good and perfect reason. When Jesus says "I only do what I see my Father doing" means exactly that. When he sees his Father act he plants that in his memory and then when he has an opportunity in a similar situation he does exactly what he saw the Father doing. He is mirror image not only of his Father's physical being but of his actions. He knows that if he alters and falls out of line from what his Father does he could get into trouble just like his brother Satan has.

You see, Satan got too full of himself and said he could do it "better" than his Father, which was the beginning of his fall. Of course he didn't say those words necessarily, but by his actions we can see that he did.

Why would that or those scriptures even be written in the Bible if they essentially mean nothing. If they are just a "saying" that we apply to our own children, of what use are they. We didn't need scripture to tell us that our kids look similar to what we do and act like us. It would be a waste of God's Word. The Bible says that every word in the Bible and every phrase has power. What "power" does a simple man made expression have and where is it's place in that Word?

 

You will learn in the Kingdom of God what is true about Jehovah and his Son and you will be amazed at how much you have been misled by the Watchtower in knowledge about God and Jesus. But I know that you will not get this from me. I am unable to remove the scales from your eyes that make it hard for you to see these truth's. There is no sense in discussing them any more, it is fruitless. I tried my best, but my best wasn't good enough.

 

Hiya Frank, no I am not offended, you are entitled to your opinion but with all due respect, you do not know me & I you, I do not have a shallow view of God's word, in fact it's quite the opposite. I just feel that sometimes individuals can read too much into the scriptures with respect to making out that they are saying more than they are, elborating may be just a little too much. Many religions including the Watchtower have done many times, I am by no means comparing you to them or placing you in the same context, just merely stating a point & a fact.

Kindest regards,
Daz

 

What would you call this statement by Jesus? “But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, ‘Who is My mother and who are My brothers?’ And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, ‘Behold My mother and My brothers!’”

Don’t laugh too hard, Frank. You may find yourself choking on your words.

“'To coin a phrase' is now rarely used with its original 'invent a new phrase' meaning but is almost always used ironically to introduce a banal or clichéd sentiment. Coining of words was often associated with spurious linguistic inventions.”

 

Your too smart for me!

 

Maybe you should read the next verse for clarification.

 

There's no need to read it, Jesus explained it, in that next verse. Did the people who heard his answer understand the depth of his words? Probably not. How so? Example: Many Baptists, etc., don't believe they were his relatives. His "brothers" were men he "called his brethern"

 

His brethren were all those that do the will of his Father who is in the heavens.

 

Maybe. I would be hesitant to make a sweeping application of John 5 though; it's not like Jesus is just a puppet which necessarily duplicates what his Father does.

Personally I read John 5 as saying "I've come to do the will of the one who sent me".

Not "I literally duplicate everything the Father does in every instance possible".

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On the other-hand, maybe Satan is Jesus' firstborn and Peter is the earthly 'last Adam' correlation?

I feel like we shouldn't speculate though Convicted.

 

Yeah, that's only a saying anyway.